Brenda is a truly fascinating case. Somewhere between her first departure from Y&R (she had already begun to vamp up) and her return, all the humanity was lost. She became this over-emoting shell, all surface, nothing underneath.

Ironically, it worked for the character. Her Jill married for money, not love (Deborah Adair did something more subtle...it was also money-not-love...except Jill had major father-abandonment issues, and John touched her at that level). So, all of Brenda's vamping and shallowness somehow helped create Jill as the villainness who deserved all the karma coming her way. That was fun to watch, in an Alexis Carrington way.

That is also an outdated portrayal of the vamp...not even gay men like that kind of diva anymore...and so Walton sort of freshened the character and brought her into the "post-Dynasty" era.

But Brenda....it only got worse, of course. "Welcome to My Home" is the culmination of all that narcissism and delusion...and her recent battles over her apartment with her husband, and her INJUDICIOUS battle with her judge...all these things show that she has lost a real perspective on her power, her value, and how to get what she really wants of out life.

It really is very striking. In fact, this scene -- featuring 80s Brenda just before she left (eyes searching for the cue card) -- contrasts with a 1970s flashback within the scene in which BD's smile and natural charisma let up the set.

Awww, Thom Bierdz. *sniffle*

As for BD's life thus far, I really do feel sorry for her. Narcissim and delusion -- you are so right.

And Deborah Adair oozed class, sensuality and subtlety. I wish she were back on Daytime!

Cat: Youtube and SON guides through the youtube-morass

...oh my goodness, I have found my bliss.

Anytime.

Tho i am someone who forgets there are other fahsions outhtere aside from the hollywood club scene and the beach set. but i dont mind because well.. where else would i ever go?

It's as good a fashion-y place to start as any (although promise me you will one day think about traveling to NYC or Tokyo or somewhere! Just so you can compare and contrast. Take in a different vibe. Change of scenery, etc).

It's as good a fashion-y place to start as any (although promise me you will one day think about traveling to NYC or Tokyo or somewhere! Just so you can compare and contrast. Take in a different vibe. Change of scenery, etc).

Travel? Gosh yes!

but i am a socal boy. i cant.. and dont want to.. change it. So i will be on Tokyo in my A&F shirt and plaid shorts or stylish jeans that i paid way to much money, lol.

Cat: Youtube and SON guides through the youtube-morass

...oh my goodness, I have found my bliss.

I discovered Hotokra, ItsMandyKimper and tombinorway's 80s Y&R greatness a week or two ago when Y&R was only on for three days. I got sick and my book wasn't holding my attention, and I was in a "Jill & Kay's past" mood. This is what the YT search threw up.

LOL at jp's post. ^^ Thank goodness. Don't ever change, jp!

Edited September 15, 200817 yr by Cat

What are they reducing Colleen to? she getting very desperate & stupid acting.

What are they reducing Colleen to? she getting very desperate & stupid acting.

I agree......

I'd rather they wrote Colleen off the show for awhile instead of turning her into a desperate catty slut.......

Lizzy Hendrickson is ALL THAT AND A BAG OF CHIPS AND SOME DIP! Not sure if any current daytime actress under 30 can touch in the acting dept!

Wow - great topics going on today. i remmber when DA started and my mom and I were like - she's not Jill. You wanted Jill to be a big bad b!tch and DA was very subtle. Not saying subtle isn't good - just didn't seem to work for an 80's soap! Brenda could pull of arch acting with such aplomb and in a dominating manner that made her fascinating as well as compelling. You always wanted to see what was going to happen to her. That's been the key to creating a soap character - caring what happens to them. And whther you loved BD's Jill or hated her - you always wanted to know what she was up to and what the outcome would be. As for the clip that Cat posted - i wonder if this is the infamous clip that got her in trouble for not crying. In her E! special she says BB called her up and asked why she didn't cry and she defended herself by saying she cried buckets and buckets of tears but they didn't use that take. She's just completely delusional...

Which brings me to Chloe. i've commented before that she's done horrible deeds and if she were a man people would be plotting her death but the actress EH is so engaging that she makes you forget she's ruining all the people's lives around her cause her potrayal is so compelling. And making her a sort of Avenger-type character - "I'll not let you treat my baby like my mother" is a very strong, personal perspective to choose. I love that they're making the reveleation of Chloe as Ester's daugfhter Kate take on an upstairs vs. downstairs dialogue on the rich vs. the poor which is Bell's signature stroke on all his soaps. The excitement of seeing the underdog take on the powerful elite never gets old and it allows us to (temporiliy) forget that Chloe has done the despicable and focus on her struggle through life of always wanting to fit into the social class that has relegated her mother to humilation and sacrifice.

But...the River Baldwin thing better kick some drama soon cause it's boring me. The spoilers tell me it's going to get interesting but this week it's just dragging things down. I also hope that MG can tone down the ashram vibe and go into a more natural line delvery cause it comes off as fake and gimmicky to me. Also, Gloria and Jeff's business is dull when it's supposed to come off as sharp. Them one-upping each other may be exciting for the characters but not for this viewer. Adn Jeff, who used to be so dangerous is just a cackling hyena. Give him a grudge or a connection with someone currently on the canvas separate from Gloria and the Baldwins.

Oh and the RS business is equally snooze-worthy but it's not going to last long from what i've read so i'm patiently waiting for it's "thrilling" conclusion.

OMG, don't even mention tapes, I have a million Y&R episodes on them and I've got to sit down and figure how to convert them to DVD

That's going to be a bit trickier since that requires some extra equipment - primarily a capture device and software - that isn't on your computer. It's not like most computers that come with DVD players (and even DVD burners on most newer ones) so you just need the ripping software. The good news is you don't have to open up your computer to do it these days, as many companies make USB devices to capture with, so the hardest part is connecting the wires from your VCR and having the patience to do the captures in real time. There are people who will do it for you, but you might not want to pay the money if you have tons of tapes.

That Brad scene sounds completely hilarious. I know that a lot of people can't stand Brad anymore and I don't blaim them. But Brad, in his own right, is a brilliant character. Some claim his smugness and that air of superiority are bad things about him, but that's just who Brad is. He's smug, manipulative, highly opportunistic like you said, but he was also very caring to the ones that he loved. And his looks didn't hurt. Don Diamont relished in the very specific writing that Bell did for him and that's why it worked. However, the terrible writing for him the last few years has not done him any favors.

The Latham backstory didn't help especially, since it didn't jive that someone trying to hide out because his family was being targeted by Nazis would make his way in the world by hitching up with high profile families like Brad did. And how did he go from someone unselfish trying to help his family to someone so smug and manipulative?

Walton was introduced at a time of great transition for Jill. Phillip (aged) was back, and there was the Nina story. Also, Walton was introduced when Jill was transforming homeless bum Romalotti into "Rex Sterling" to occupy Kay. So, the transition to an 'aged' and 'maternal' and 'single' Jill coincided with the re-cast, which made the change easier for me to take.

So, what you refer to "masculine voice" (she has been a heavy smoker and ex substance abuser) is part of a whole package of changes that took most of the sensuality and vulnereability and softness away from Jill. There was less of the feminine sophistication of Adair. There was none of the hip thrust "do me" moves of Dickson. And it worked!

The Jill we had now was the outcome of 20+ years of bitterness and loss and anger and rivalry. Her sensuality and youth were gone. She was frustrated. Guile had become normal for her (such contrast to her early, soft days in the early-mid seventies). Walton embodied a character who was nearly pure vinegar...whose defensive hardness was erected to protect her heart...and in the process, made her barrenly alone.

Under Walton, even a reunion with John didn't have much romance or passion. Jill soon was bearing John a child he did not want, and screwing the architect (Josh Taylor) who was coming to remodel. She had forgotten how to love or give herself.

I picture Walton's Jill as a woman who, in a different life, would be perched at the end of a bar, smoking wildly, who would quickly launch into all the bad hands life has dealt her. I don't find her "wooden/stiff", but "brittle/defended/hard/harsh/angry". I find her voice to be a growl that beautifully fits the anger that has now become her primary and core emotion.

For me, the fascinating arc for Jill would be to find love and trust...maybe not with a man, but with a friend or a grandchild. I'd love to see if Walton could soften up Jill.

That's a great way to describe why Jess is just...heaven. The Jill Jess Walton created is one who, after all these years, just gave into her anger, she stopped giving a sh*t about anyone aside from Billy and herself. She was tough, she was just 'done' and so she decided to have some fun and do whatever (or whomever) she wanted.

Jess Walton, in my most humble opinion, is the greatest soap recast ever. She took a version of Jill that was never going to make it in the 90s and transformed her into someone passionate, someone tangible, someone angry. Anger, as MarkH puts it, is the core of Jill Abbott...after all the hell she's been through for 35 years I'd be pretty angry too!

And I looooove Walton's growl, the roughness to her voice. Yes it's due to her smoking (which I believe she finally gave up a couple of years ago) and her substance abuse in the early 80s...but damn if it isn't just one of the best voices in daytime.

And Cat, I so agree about her hair. She needs to grow it out pronto. The short cut doesn't do much for her, it's an aging cut. As are the blond highlights. If she went a deep chestnut brown and let her hair go to her shoulders she'd look 10 years younger. I'm certain of it. She's a sexy woman as she is, but the hair would help her greatly.

Wow - great topics going on today. i remmber when DA started and my mom and I were like - she's not Jill. You wanted Jill to be a big bad b!tch and DA was very subtle. Not saying subtle isn't good - just didn't seem to work for an 80's soap! Brenda could pull of arch acting with such aplomb and in a dominating manner that made her fascinating as well as compelling. You always wanted to see what was going to happen to her. That's been the key to creating a soap character - caring what happens to them. And whther you loved BD's Jill or hated her - you always wanted to know what she was up to and what the outcome would be. As for the clip that Cat posted - i wonder if this is the infamous clip that got her in trouble for not crying. In her E! special she says BB called her up and asked why she didn't cry and she defended herself by saying she cried buckets and buckets of tears but they didn't use that take. She's just completely delusional...

We agree on what we saw...just differ on what we liked . I much prefered the "less arch" Jill played by DA. It is SUCH a treat to see those clips.

Which brings me to Chloe. i've commented before that she's done horrible deeds and if she were a man people would be plotting her death but the actress EH is so engaging that she makes you forget she's ruining all the people's lives around her cause her potrayal is so compelling. And making her a sort of Avenger-type character - "I'll not let you treat my baby like my mother" is a very strong, personal perspective to choose. I love that they're making the reveleation of Chloe as Ester's daugfhter Kate take on an upstairs vs. downstairs dialogue on the rich vs. the poor which is Bell's signature stroke on all his soaps. The excitement of seeing the underdog take on the powerful elite never gets old and it allows us to (temporiliy) forget that Chloe has done the despicable and focus on her struggle through life of always wanting to fit into the social class that has relegated her mother to humilation and sacrifice.

Yes, the actress is phenomenal...and (even if it is a retcon manipulation), making her "Kate" has 100% turned her into someone I care about. Now, even when she is bad, I kind of understand...and I want her to get happier.

But...the River Baldwin thing better kick some drama soon cause it's boring me. The spoilers tell me it's going to get interesting but this week it's just dragging things down. I also hope that MG can tone down the ashram vibe and go into a more natural line delvery cause it comes off as fake and gimmicky to me. Also, Gloria and Jeff's business is dull when it's supposed to come off as sharp. Them one-upping each other may be exciting for the characters but not for this viewer. Adn Jeff, who used to be so dangerous is just a cackling hyena. Give him a grudge or a connection with someone currently on the canvas separate from Gloria and the Baldwins.

100% agree on everything you wrote here...ESPECIALLY the "hyena" part.

Oh and the RS business is equally snooze-worthy but it's not going to last long from what i've read so i'm patiently waiting for it's "thrilling" conclusion.

I think RS has to fail. Nick doesn't have what it takes. I wonder where this will go....

If this is true about Lily

that Billy take an interest in Lily

that's why I don't worry about her losing a guy it seems like one is always waiting for her in the wings. Then we go through her virginal innocent never been there done that before act.

Edited September 16, 200817 yr by MoTheGreat

If this is true about Lily

that Billy take an interest in Lily

that's why I don't worry about her losing a guy it seems like one is always waiting for her in the wings. Then we go through her virginal innocent never been there done that before act.

Um, where did you hear that?

Billy will be involved with

Amber

initially, but then his family members according to spoilers.

Um, where did you hear that?

Billy will be involved with

Amber

initially, but then his family members according to spoilers.

I just hope it's true what you say because I can't take another never been there & never done that before by Lily.