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2 hours ago, BigMAnOnDeck said:

Rewatching the Summer 89 episodes made me realize to this day he is the best Jack Abbott. No shade to Peter B.


Well I'd reword that and say that version of Jack Abbott was best - which is not only down to TL who was obviously great but also to the writing.
Jack *was written* differently back then too and that's important to note when we look back at it with nostalgia.

 

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2 hours ago, FrenchBug82 said:


Well I'd reword that and say that version of Jack Abbott was best - which is not only down to TL who was obviously great but also to the writing.
Jack *was written* differently back then too and that's important to note when we look back at it with nostalgia.

 

Jacky was more in the Vein of a Yuppie JR Ewing at that time Terry played him. To tell the truth the first two years of Peter B. you can tell he tried to capture Terry Lester style

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1 hour ago, BigMAnOnDeck said:

Jacky was more in the Vein of a Yuppie JR Ewing at that time Terry played him. To tell the truth the first two years of Peter B. you can tell he tried to capture Terry Lester style

 

Yes.
And as I mentioned in the past I suspect one reason he detested the LuAnn story so much is that not just that it was a bad retcon, but it was the key moment where Bell just turned Jack into something else - almost sappy - and for Bergman, that might have felt like a vote of no-confidence that Bell felt he wasn't pulling off the Lester-style Jack.

It is not that mellowing Jack with age was an absurd move in a vacuum but to PB it probably read as Cliff-izing the character, which he might have been bummed about.

And it also turned Jack as a perpetual loser - thereby propping Victor up - rather than the rascal he had been. All of this is at Bell's feet, whatever his reasons.

So I don't necessarily blame PB per se. He doesn't do badly when he has to be a bit meaner, although he doesn't do the oily charm thing as well as TL did but that could have been easily fixed by adapting the dialogue. Instead they adapted the character entirely.

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22 minutes ago, yrfan1983 said:

The biggest problem for me is that TL oozed sex appeal while PB possessed none.

 

Just watch the beginning of this ep, and how the camera lingers over TL's torso...https://youtu.be/BRb0tDDcCgE

 

This is kind of lost on me as I didn't find TL attractive. But I think it rejoins what I was mentioning under the broad umbrella of "charm". That, I do see.
PB is a good actor but he is very bloodless. He can sell Jack as being in love but I can never see the part where Jack *seduced* whoever. TL's Jack was never really in love but I could totally see him seducing and charming his conquests.

 

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Posted (edited)

I was thinking about Bill Bell's 25 yr reign as headwriter and this this acheivement was unmatched. 

Irna Phillips wrote ATWT for 14 years straight. How long was Agnes Nixon actually headwriting AMC?

 

Looking back, I can sort of see 3 distinct 'eras' in that 25 yr stretch and it's interesting to look at decisions that were made over the years.

73-83  was obviously the original Brooks and Foster families with new characters brought in with the expansion to 60 mins.

From the 1980 influx Bill still tried to keep the original characters involved. The Fosters and Brooks were still strongly represented.

But slowly they were diminished... Peggy,Chris, Lorie and Leslie all departed as did Snapper and Greg. Liz and especially Stuart were reduced to occasional support.

So by 83 Bill was writing practically a new show.

The characters that survived that transition were refashioned and their history edited.

Nikki was now the stripper rescued by Victor. Her past marriages to Greg and Kevin were never referenced nor any of her previous shenanigans- Rose Deville, the cult etc

Paul was now the hero with the vixenish wife - no mention of his deadbeat past, marriage to April or fathering Heather. Once Patty departed he was treated as an only child.

Victor was the ruthless businessman-imprisoning Michael Scott in the cellar was never referenced. When Julia returned there was no mention of the emotional abuse she suffered as Victor's first wife-they were on good terms.

Jill and Kay -the biggest links to that era were defined by their conflict over Phillip, yet the years long battle over Derek was forgotten.

Liz- her marriage to Stu ignored, Even Douglas' shady past was forgotten.

83-93 

That was basically playing out what was set up and it worked well.

But by end the stories were concluding

Ashley/Victor/Nikki/Jack story was over. They'd all swapped partners and it hadn't worked out.

Jill v Kay that resulted in her divorcing John,the battle over Phillip 111, the arrival of Rex and his subsequent marriage to Katherine.

Traci's marriage and divorce from Brad.

Paul's marriage to Lauren and romance with Cassandra.

Cricket's romance and marriage to Danny.

 

So by this time Bill Bell was facing a new challenge in that he had never written a show for that length of time. He had to make decisions that would carry the show forward...

 

 

 

Edited by Paul Raven
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I always felt that the most defining characteristic of Terry Lester's Jack was his "devil-may-care" attitude.   Never made any difference to me how handsome he was or how charming he was.  

That all went out the window with Peter Bergman, who always seemed too methodical, poised, practiced & meticulous to be Jack Abbott.  

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5 minutes ago, YRfan23 said:

I just think that if Lester stayed, it would have been a more equal rivalry with Victor and Jack. 

 

Yep.  Even when Victor TROUNCED Terry Lester's Jack, it was always a hollow victory, because Terry Lester shrugged and said, "Aw shucks", went back to chasing women, badgering Jill, giving John Abbott and Ashley fits, and didn't seem to give Victor much thought at all until their next confrontation.  Peter Bergman's Jack always appears to be stewing and pouting about Victor.  

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34 minutes ago, Broderick said:

 

Yep.  Even when Victor TROUNCED Terry Lester's Jack, it was always a hollow victory, because Terry Lester shrugged and said, "Aw shucks", went back to chasing women, badgering Jill, giving John Abbott and Ashley fits, and didn't seem to give Victor much thought at all until their next confrontation.  Peter Bergman's Jack always appears to be stewing and pouting about Victor.  

Even after Victor takes Jabot, Terry's Jack during those last few months, doesn't even seem all that phased. He treats it all like a minor annoyance, and doesn't seem too worried about whatever else Victor had in store (namely hiring Brad as his right hand) 

 

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https://www.ynet.co.il/laisha/article/rksk110UPO?utm_source=ynet.co.il&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=email&utm_term=rksk110UPO&utm_content=Article

 

An interview with MTH resurfaced in an Israeli news website 

 

42 years in "Restless Young People": "If one day I start acting like Nicki, please slap me" Melody Thomas Scott has been playing Nicki Newman in the immortal series for four decades. With the rise of the series again in Israel, she explains how she is still not tired of the character, how love scenes are filmed in the Corona era, and why Aretha Franklin was angry with her (30 years!)

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On 5/7/2021 at 10:13 PM, yrfan1983 said:

The biggest problem for me is that TL oozed sex appeal while PB possessed none.

 

Just watch the beginning of this ep, and how the camera lingers over TL's torso...https://youtu.be/BRb0tDDcCgE

 

 

I started to watch YR in 1991. Peter Bergman played Jack. I thought he was perfect for the role: handsome, introspective, elegant and charming, competent in business, smart, narcisistic and self indulgent, cold and sarcastic when he disliked someone, caring with people he loved. A person who was proud to be an Abbott and wanted so badly to be considered worthy of John's love and respect, after disappointing his beloved father so many times. His resentment against Victor was a driving force: Newman stole Jabot and Nikki's heart even when he was married to her. Hating Victor and scheming against him showed all of his devilish colours (he still had ethic conflicts and sense of guilt when everybody around him blamed him for his reckless choices). 

 

I managed to watch TL's Jack (thanks YT and the vault). He was fantastic: restless, bold, magnetic, seductive and strongly sensual, edgy, raw, sarcastic and playful . He was somewhat guided by his instinct, a softer version of JR Ewing. A younger and less mature Jack, with less nuances and more impudence. 

 

 

On 5/7/2021 at 10:13 PM, yrfan1983 said:

The biggest problem for me is that TL oozed sex appeal while PB possessed none.

 

Just watch the beginning of this ep, and how the camera lingers over TL's torso...https://youtu.be/BRb0tDDcCgE

 

 

On 5/8/2021 at 5:29 PM, asafi said:

https://www.ynet.co.il/laisha/article/rksk110UPO?utm_source=ynet.co.il&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=email&utm_term=rksk110UPO&utm_content=Article

 

An interview with MTH resurfaced in an Israeli news website 

 

42 years in "Restless Young People": "If one day I start acting like Nicki, please slap me" Melody Thomas Scott has been playing Nicki Newman in the immortal series for four decades. With the rise of the series again in Israel, she explains how she is still not tired of the character, how love scenes are filmed in the Corona era, and why Aretha Franklin was angry with her (30 years!)

 

I red her biography (very very interesting and surprising). 

Aretha never forgot their first awkard casual meeting in early 1980s.

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Posted (edited)
On 5/7/2021 at 11:36 AM, BigMAnOnDeck said:

Jacky was more in the Vein of a Yuppie JR Ewing at that time Terry played him. 

 

4 hours ago, AlexGrimaldi said:

I managed to watch TL's Jack (thanks YT and the vault). He was fantastic: restless, bold, magnetic, seductive and strongly sensual, edgy, raw, sarcastic and playful . He was somewhat guided by his instinct, a softer version of JR Ewing. A younger and less mature Jack, with less nuances and more impudence. 

 

Bill Bell introduced Victor, John, Jack in 1980 and their introductions overlapped with Dallas at the height of its popularity. I figured Victor (billionaire businessman that owns and lives on a horse ranch and has a long suffering younger wife) was modelled after JR, John (cosmetics company owner) was modelled after Jock, and Jack (playboy son of cosmetics company owner) was modelled as a Gary/Bobby hybrid.  

 

A big part of Jack's character when TL was in the role was the lost little boy with abandonment issues (from his mother leaving the family) that was always looking for his father's love and approval. That element of Jack seemed to be lessened when PB took over.

 

 

Edited by kalbir
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7 hours ago, kalbir said:

 

 

Bill Bell introduced Victor, John, Jack in 1980 and their introductions overlapped with Dallas at the height of its popularity. I figured Victor (billionaire businessman that owns and lives on a horse ranch and has a long suffering younger wife) was modelled after JR, John (cosmetics company owner) was modelled after Jock, and Jack (playboy son of cosmetics company owner) was modelled as a Gary/Bobby hybrid.  


It could very well be that the Dallas popularity inspired Bell some but I have to really be skeptical of the specific character parallels here.

JR as a ruthless businessman certainly works with Victor but that was hardly specific to JR. It had been done plenty. And even if we grant that comparison, which is plausible enough, one of JR's very few human traits was his obvious longing for his father's pride which, as you correctly point out, was more one of the thoroughlines of Jack's character. Victor's toughness was not driven at the outset that I remember by a sense of family - on the contrary, his identity as a self-made man is what made him feel tough and ruthless.
Otoh I don't really see anything of Gary in Jack. At all. As for Bobby maybe the pre-Pamela playboy aspect (which was never shown on Dallas but was a big part of Jack) but Bobby was a good guy - to the point of milquetoast - which Jack emphatically was not. He was a carefree hedonist more than ruthless, true, but he had none of the moral principles that were driving Bobby.
So I think we are doing a disfavor to Bell by trying to shoehorn the comparison. Jack in particular was a complex character who didn't resemble anything else that was done on Dallas or anywhere else in my humble opinion.
And the archetypes of John, the business patriarch, and Victor, the ruthless businessman, represented were hardly original to Dallas or to Y&R.

Were there any other maybe better examples of Bell and/or Y&R being directly inspired by primetime for characters they ever introduced?
I know other soaps tried the Alexis-style "b*tch" in the late 80s but I don't recall Y&R really going that route - I don't think Jill's upmarketisation fits the bill. What else?

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