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Early Iva had more spirit...but like Marland's writing starting to become more somber..so did Iva's character.

 

One thing I did like about Marland was that he continued the elements put there by Bledsoe (Lily and Shannon's bond, Lucinda/Craig/Sierra, Sierra's common sense approach to Lily and Lucinda's conflicts).

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Ugh...Kirk and Ellie were a disaster. I never got it---and I doubt they would've been paired up if Scott Bryce had stuck around.

 

Kirk was the only guy who was inherently interested in Iva from the jump. With every other guy she always seemed to be a second choice. I loved Kirk and Iva. I practically wore out a vcr replaying their scenes. Him following her into the Mona Lisa ladies room was hilarious.

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9 hours ago, DramatistDreamer said:

 

I saw the livestream interview with Paul Leyden and was astonished about his revelation that the show actually coughed up the cash to fly out half a dozen Australian guys business class to NYC ca. 2000-01 just to test for the Simon Frasier role?? You could already see cuts to the show production. I wonder what went into that decision to fly all those Aussies from one side of the world to the other just for a few days? Was this the best use of the show's decreasing budget?

 

 

I thought that was strange too. Why go through all that expense? If they wanted an Australian character, why not just hire a New York actor who can do an Australian accent? Isn't that what actors do? Accents and such? 

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3 hours ago, Bill Bauer said:

 

 

I thought that was strange too. Why go through all that expense? If they wanted an Australian character, why not just hire a New York actor who can do an Australian accent? Isn't that what actors do? Accents and such? 

 

I can understand them wanting a real Aussie but even back then the technology was in place to record a video audition and send it to the exec. producers, who can then select their preferred "Simon" from the submissipns and then fly the winning candidate to the U.S. It just seems like an extravagant expense for a show that was on the verge of decline. Even in the days when soaps were flush with cash, I don't think I have ever heard of this being done on a daytime soap before.

3 hours ago, P.J. said:

Ugh...Kirk and Ellie were a disaster. I never got it---and I doubt they would've been paired up if Scott Bryce had stuck around.

 

Kirk was the only guy who was inherently interested in Iva from the jump. With every other guy she always seemed to be a second choice. I loved Kirk and Iva. I practically wore out a vcr replaying their scenes. Him following her into the Mona Lisa ladies room was hilarious.

 

Kirk and Iva had a lot of witty and sharp banter. I really liked the dialogue between them, it was very Wilder-esque at times. And there was a lot of humor in their early scenes together.

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On 11/6/2020 at 6:11 PM, Soaplovers said:

With ATWT, Bledsoe had a slightly quirky energy in her writing (I've seen interviews with her..and she reminds me of Shannon on ATWT)...which Marland maintained. 

I think you are right...ATWT before Marland was more free wheeling and fun (I loved it when John came to Lisa's costume party with just his street clothes..."Who are you supposed to be?" John "Mr. Nice Guy!") and you could see that she especially got Lisa..who was more subdued under Marland.

 

On 11/6/2020 at 5:16 PM, Neil Johnson said:

Are you suggesting camp is a good thing?

Yes, every soap needs some camp.. Lucinda was camp personified and she knew it..it was like Mary Ellen was playing the part of flamboyant Lucinda...Lisa was fun and campy pre Marland...still getting into everyone's business and her appearance as the Queen on a barge at her costume party.. Marland did do camp but it was still too somber... the Castle is pure camp, as was Lilith..

 

On 11/7/2020 at 8:34 AM, titan1978 said:

I really wish ivy had more of a spark, because Lisa Brown plays that so well.

When she first came on the show she was a former bad girl who was smart and fiesty..but as the years progressed.

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30 minutes ago, Mitch said:

Yes, every soap needs some camp.. Lucinda was camp personified and she knew it..it was like Mary Ellen was playing the part of flamboyant Lucinda...Lisa was fun and campy pre Marland...still getting into everyone's business and her appearance as the Queen on a barge at her costume party.. Marland did do camp but it was still too somber... the Castle is pure camp, as was Lilith..

 

I'd forgotten about Lilith. That was the closest Marland came to pure camp - there were other fun bitch types, like Tess, or Marcy, bur Lilith was the one who could have stepped into a John Waters film without much divergence. Sara Botsford could play serious with the malicious glee underneath. Even her big moment where she's on the catwalk and Duncan sees her, she plays in just the right way.

 

Regarding Iva, I think early on they were a bit better at othering her and playing up a certain refined trashiness in her, alongside the Snyders at large. Once Marland cleaned them all up by the end of 1986 or so, she became more of a generic, suffering heroine.

Edited by DRW50
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38 minutes ago, DRW50 said:

 

I'd forgotten about Lilith. That was the closest Marland came to pure camp - there were other fun bitch types, like Tess, or Marcy, bur Lilith was the one who could have stepped into a John Waters film without much divergence. Sara Botsford could play serious with the malicious glee underneath. Even her big moment where she's on the catwalk and Duncan sees her, she plays in just the right way.

 

Regarding Iva, I think early on they were a bit better at othering her and playing up a certain refined trashiness in her, alongside the Snyders at large. Once Marland cleaned them all up by the end of 1986 or so, she became more of a generic, suffering heroine.

 

I saw some late 1985 episodes and I was surprised at how subdued and cold Emma was.  She seemed like a long suffering widow holding down the farm while angry at Iva for running away and breaking her father's heart.  I wish Marland kept some of that grit for Emma instead of making her a perky mama when that was all light and rainbows.

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11 minutes ago, Soaplovers said:

 

I saw some late 1985 episodes and I was surprised at how subdued and cold Emma was.  She seemed like a long suffering widow holding down the farm while angry at Iva for running away and breaking her father's heart.  I wish Marland kept some of that grit for Emma instead of making her a perky mama when that was all light and rainbows.

Yes, that is what I remember of Iva, Emma angry at her for leaving. I wish they had kept that push and pull between Iva and Emma and kept Iva as more of a rebel still.

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28 minutes ago, Soaplovers said:

I saw some late 1985 episodes and I was surprised at how subdued and cold Emma was.  She seemed like a long suffering widow holding down the farm while angry at Iva for running away and breaking her father's heart.  I wish Marland kept some of that grit for Emma instead of making her a perky mama when that was all light and rainbows.

 

I think this is one of the reasons I am more drawn to some of the 91-92 Snyder material than many here are, as it goes back a little more to the hostility between Iva and Emma and also to how toxic the Snyder dynamics can be. First Iva and John (such a stupid, lazy writing choice, but the brief episodes where Emma was resentful [as she really had loved John, probably more than Iva ever did] were worthwhile) and then various members of the family learning about all her lies, how she wanted to protect Lily and Holden while also being able to raise a child, leading to so much chaos. Emma was briefly mad at her, which should have gone on longer. (the tension with Lily also could have gone on longer if they had not fired Lisa Brown in favor of the big fat nothingburgers dumped all over the canvas in 1994)

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42 minutes ago, DRW50 said:

 

I think this is one of the reasons I am more drawn to some of the 91-92 Snyder material than many here are, as it goes back a little more to the hostility between Iva and Emma and also to how toxic the Snyder dynamics can be. First Iva and John (such a stupid, lazy writing choice, but the brief episodes where Emma was resentful [as she really had loved John, probably more than Iva ever did] were worthwhile) and then various members of the family learning about all her lies, how she wanted to protect Lily and Holden while also being able to raise a child, leading to so much chaos. Emma was briefly mad at her, which should have gone on longer. (the tension with Lily also could have gone on longer if they had not fired Lisa Brown in favor of the big fat nothingburgers dumped all over the canvas in 1994)

I haven't seen much from this period of the show's history, but I recently went back and watched a lot of John clips on YouTube because he's one of my favorite ATWT characters. And it just seems weird to me that he was ever paired with Emma or Iva. There's probably no nice way to say this, but neither of them seem like his type. Most of his pairings were with glamorous women like Kim or Lucinda, or pretty young things like Dee. Did Marland really "get" John in the same way he appreciated some of the veteran characters like Kim?

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1 hour ago, prefab1 said:

I haven't seen much from this period of the show's history, but I recently went back and watched a lot of John clips on YouTube because he's one of my favorite ATWT characters. And it just seems weird to me that he was ever paired with Emma or Iva. There's probably no nice way to say this, but neither of them seem like his type. Most of his pairings were with glamorous women like Kim or Lucinda, or pretty young things like Dee. Did Marland really "get" John in the same way he appreciated some of the veteran characters like Kim?

I don't think Marland really got John. The Dobson's for all their faults. Totally got who Johnny D was.

Edited by victoria foxton
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19 minutes ago, prefab1 said:

I haven't seen much from this period of the show's history, but I recently went back and watched a lot of John clips on YouTube because he's one of my favorite ATWT characters. And it just seems weird to me that he was ever paired with Emma or Iva. There's probably no nice way to say this, but neither of them seem like his type. Most of his pairings were with glamorous women like Kim or Lucinda, or pretty young things like Dee. Did Marland really "get" John in the same way he appreciated some of the veteran characters like Kim?

 

Not really, no. Marland struggled to write for characters with an edge, but the biggest problem with John in Marland's era was that the pairing with Lucinda meant John had to be the more rational one - when they were together and even after they split up. A marriage where both were schemers could have been interesting, but was never going to happen, because Lucinda was constantly in motion, moving plots and self-sabotaging and being punished for her sins. John was a key part of that under Marland's pen. 

 

Both the Emma and Iva relationships were very plot-driven - he was with Emma to create more conflict from the Meg/Dusty/Lily/Holden quad, and he was with Iva because of the Aaron storyline. (supposedly Lisa and Larry also wanted to work together because they were involved at this time - no idea if that was true or not)

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10 minutes ago, DRW50 said:

 

 A marriage where both were schemers could have been interesting, but was never going to happen, because Lucinda was constantly in motion, moving plots and self-sabotaging and being punished for her sins. John was a key part of that under Marland's pen. 

 

Thanks for the info! I agree it's a shame he didn't do more with John and Lucinda both scheming. Because much later in the show's history, that resulted in one of my all-time favorite ATWT scenes:

 

ah

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That's a fun clip. Before Goutman lost interest, Lucinda early in her return was able to plot and have some sparring moments with various characters, like John or Jake McKinnon. 

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Vintage Spintage, who has been putting up some of these great episodes lately, is asking for donations at the top of their videos. I don't think most of us have the money, but if anybody does, their cash app is  $LB1597

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