41 minutes ago, P.J. said:

It seems like Tom Tammi was only there a year or so. Deas was there longer. Maybe it's just the fact that Deas made a bigger impression on her that made him "her Tom". And no one's memory's infallible.

I wonder how she and Tammi got along ? Zenk seems to have had friction with a lot of her co-stars. 

It was probably smart to keep Tom in his 30s for decades after the SORASing. He finally got back to his actual age! 😆

Someone has uploaded a December 1992 episode I can't find elsewhere on Youtube.

@Soapsuds @DramatistDreamer @Paul Raven @slick jones @P.J. @jam6242 @Vee @soapfan770 @adrnyc @SoapDope @FrenchFan @Franko @vetsoapfan @Mitch64 @Reverend Ruthledge @Mona Kane Croft @dc11786 @wonderwoman1951 @Soaplovers @VelekaCarruthers @Brolden  @Liberty City @NothinButAttitude

Thanks for the tag @DRW50!!😊

6 hours ago, DRW50 said:

Someone has uploaded a December 1992 episode I can't find elsewhere on Youtube.

 

Oh, wow. Thanks so much! This is a beautiful find! I appreciate you so much!

On 11/16/2024 at 6:12 PM, DRW50 said:

I am not sure how viewers at the time felt about it, but beyond some of the spats between Barbara and Margo (which would continue through the rest of ATWT's run), I don't actually like the whole plot with Barbara scheming to get Tom and Margo believing that Tom had cheated on her. I know it was done to liven Barbara up after many wan years, but by the standards of most Marland material, the whole thing seems extremely plot-driven.

It WAS very plot driven...Babs changed overnight and after being friends with Tom and Margo, decided to go after Tom...for..reasons? I can see if Margo and she had a fight over something or if she really wanted Tom..plus having it a fake screw took the umph out of it..all that drama for nothing.  However, there were some great scene and I love how Babs does not want Bob, Kim or Lisa finding out.

22 minutes ago, Mitch64 said:

It WAS very plot driven...Babs changed overnight and after being friends with Tom and Margo, decided to go after Tom...for..reasons?

It was a rare time when Douglas Marland cut to the chase rather than do his usual, gradual build; and maybe the second time he had a character change on a proverbial dime with no real explanation (the first time being with Kathryn Harrold's Nola on THE DOCTORS).

53 minutes ago, Mitch64 said:

It WAS very plot driven...Babs changed overnight and after being friends with Tom and Margo, decided to go after Tom...for..reasons? I can see if Margo and she had a fight over something or if she really wanted Tom..plus having it a fake screw took the umph out of it..all that drama for nothing.  However, there were some great scene and I love how Babs does not want Bob, Kim or Lisa finding out.

Marland absolutely ignored his own writing rules with the Barbara "vamp" story -- but only with the speed in which it was rolled out.  It did happen overnight but there was a lot of good reasoning behind the change: her loss of Brian brought up a lot of repressed anger over past failed loves (Tom, Gunnar) and the fact that Margo DID cheat with James behind her back.  After years of being a doormat, Barbara decided to become powerful.  Granted, she did it incorrectly by trying to destroy Tom and Margo (perhaps she learned too much at the feet of Stenbeck) but after that plot ended, she quickly "evened out" and became merely strong and feisty, not evil.  I think we can all agree that Barbara became a much more interesting character because of Marland's change.  AND it gave Collen Zenk an opportunity to grow as an actress.  AND it allowed her to stay with the show to the end (a weak, victimized Babs would have been written off long before).

Thanks @DRW50

5 hours ago, Mitch64 said:

It WAS very plot driven...Babs changed overnight and after being friends with Tom and Margo, decided to go after Tom...for..reasons? I can see if Margo and she had a fight over something or if she really wanted Tom..plus having it a fake screw took the umph out of it..all that drama for nothing.  However, there were some great scene and I love how Babs does not want Bob, Kim or Lisa finding out.

 

4 hours ago, Khan said:

It was a rare time when Douglas Marland cut to the chase rather than do his usual, gradual build; and maybe the second time he had a character change on a proverbial dime with no real explanation (the first time being with Kathryn Harrold's Nola on THE DOCTORS).

 

4 hours ago, MarlandFan said:

Marland absolutely ignored his own writing rules with the Barbara "vamp" story -- but only with the speed in which it was rolled out.  It did happen overnight but there was a lot of good reasoning behind the change: her loss of Brian brought up a lot of repressed anger over past failed loves (Tom, Gunnar) and the fact that Margo DID cheat with James behind her back.  After years of being a doormat, Barbara decided to become powerful.  Granted, she did it incorrectly by trying to destroy Tom and Margo (perhaps she learned too much at the feet of Stenbeck) but after that plot ended, she quickly "evened out" and became merely strong and feisty, not evil.  I think we can all agree that Barbara became a much more interesting character because of Marland's change.  AND it gave Collen Zenk an opportunity to grow as an actress.  AND it allowed her to stay with the show to the end (a weak, victimized Babs would have been written off long before).

Thanks for replying as I didn't know if I'd worded my comment/criticism that well. I agree in the long run it did work as a push for Barbara, and the show mostly got the balance right for her until Sheffer.

(sorry for anyone I didn't tag about the episode as I was half-asleep - and I know that era isn't to everyone's taste but I didn't know if any were trying to complete all of the Marland years)

53 minutes ago, DRW50 said:

 

 

Thanks for replying as I didn't know if I'd worded my comment/criticism that well. I agree in the long run it did work as a push for Barbara, and the show mostly got the balance right for her until Sheffer.

(sorry for anyone I didn't tag about the episode as I was half-asleep - and I know that era isn't to everyone's taste but I didn't know if any were trying to complete all of the Marland years)

As said earlier, I think it makes sense as the victim who has had enough and then decides to become hard and bitter and screw everyone else over. I don't think the speed of the change was necessarily even the problem as people can just "snap". I think the problem was that there was no explanation of the change. Perhaps there was. That was so long ago. Then again, people have internal changes without expository explanation. I don't know. Usually I'm not a big fan of drastic character changes but sometimes it doesn't bother me. Barbara's character change didn't bother me much. Perhaps because her change happened when I started watching the show so I wasn't aware of the way she used to be. 

16 minutes ago, Reverend Ruthledge said:

As said earlier, I think it makes sense as the victim who has had enough and then decides to become hard and bitter and screw everyone else over. I don't think the speed of the change was necessarily even the problem as people can just "snap". I think the problem was that there was no explanation of the change. Perhaps there was. That was so long ago. Then again, people have internal changes without expository explanation. I don't know. Usually I'm not a big fan of drastic character changes but sometimes it doesn't bother me. Barbara's character change didn't bother me much. Perhaps because her change happened when I started watching the show so I wasn't aware of the way she used to be. 

It was also after my time. I remember reading about the change for years before I saw those episodes, what I have seen of them, as it is treated as a seminal moment. I just found myself not enjoying the story much at all when I got to see some of the surviving material. I think the Tom/Margo portions are what bother me most as I don't believe them. I think they were too strong to fall into those traps.

Thank you @DRW50! 

Edited November 19, 20241 yr by NothinButAttitude

4 hours ago, DRW50 said:

 

 

Thanks for replying as I didn't know if I'd worded my comment/criticism that well. I agree in the long run it did work as a push for Barbara, and the show mostly got the balance right for her until Sheffer.

(sorry for anyone I didn't tag about the episode as I was half-asleep - and I know that era isn't to everyone's taste but I didn't know if any were trying to complete all of the Marland years)

Thanks too!

Also, re: Barbara--there's always the James factor in explaining her behavior. And I'm not sure exactly who was in Oakdale at the time, but maybe Marland needed a pot-stirrer, and having an established character go dark was more expedient than bringing in someone new.

7 minutes ago, P.J. said:

Thanks too!

Also, re: Barbara--there's always the James factor in explaining her behavior. And I'm not sure exactly who was in Oakdale at the time, but maybe Marland needed a pot-stirrer, and having an established character go dark was more expedient than bringing in someone new.

As Kevin's ex Marie was short term, the only other option would have been Shannon. I think keeping the feud between them going longer and allowing Shannon to remain a more secretive, complex character would have benefited her, rather than going from hijinks to misery as she lost more and more of her own voice. 

I do think the decision with Barbara made sense in the long term, and he gave her more layers than he gave most of his other vixens (maybe because they were good friends).