DRW50

Thanks @Reverend Ruthledge What a debut for an adult Ed - telling Bert to lose weight. Even here with Bill you can see what Ed would become, if only they'd kept Bill around to react more to it. I wonder if anyone beyond Alex found out that Mike had raped Julie. The Benedict women have terrible luck. Alex truly did change for the better even as so many around him devolved. Claiming that Bill's time away made him less willing to settle helps to justify his incoming fling with Maggie. They do make sure to have Bert's obsession with Hope as another justification, but I wonder how many of the housewives still sympathized with Bert. Julie's story ends with such agony. The early '60s ingenues had terrible fates. Now we're near what we would see with Robin and Paul in the available 1966 episodes. I wonder which year had Johnny aged up - 1965 I presume.

They really don't make striking book covers the way they did in the '60s and '70s.

Any time she appeared was a delight. The only downside is any time she appears you are reminded that Opal and Palmer should not have been together as a couple.

These are wonderful ideas about Christopher and Trisha. I had forgotten Buck was his uncle so there's even more story. And yes, Abril and Tommy would make sense too. I never knew why the show dropped Tommy. For an attempt at some brief ratings goosing they could have even asked Rena Sofer to briefly appear as Rocky. Cliff is one of those characters where based on what was written I thought he was big all the way through his run, but from the bits I've watched it seems like Cliff keeps leaving (similar to Nina) starting in 1985 or 1986 and he has less and less meaning to the canvas. Those would be good ideas for Angie and Trucker conflict. I didn't remember the Old Navy ads as starting in 1994 - by the time they got so big and that older woman Carrie (?) became a pop culture buzz I thought it was 96 or 97. That makes more sense for Morgan's hiring. Thank you. @EricMontreal22 This may interest you. I've never heard a great deal about just what Jeff did in Egoli beyond being paired with Esta, or how long he was on the show. Clearly the show was popular enough in South Africa to buy Jeff, but I wonder if they ever referenced his past, or that he was mentally unstable. It's always been so random and fascinating to me. Like if a German soap brought John Dixon on for a year or two. (not that P&G would ever sell any of their characters)

Two for the Money (June 5, 1952) Lost Fred Allen Hosting Pilot (Fragment Only)

Per IMDB, Billy James from 1959-November 22, 1983, producing two children. Now that I read it again I realize the specific date may mean death rather than divorce, so my apologies to the previous statement.

I've seen a number of other articles like this from the early '70s which feel like propaganda. One I remember was in Daytime TV with a Somerset actress who was speaking against women's lib - I think the title of the article was along the lines of SHE PREFERS A LAMB CHOP OVER A KARATE CHOP. Sandra's marriage ended in divorce, so if she did sacrifice her career for him, I hope she didn't regret it.

Tom was important to AMC but by that time I wouldn't say he was a lead, similar to GH with Tom/Simon and OLTL with Kevin/Rachel. At least The City did pair Nick and Lorraine in its final months, even as the network had been phasing out black/white relationships on their other soaps. They had good chemistry. The only downside is bringing Lorraine in meant that Charles had a completely miserable ending, which he didn't deserve.

Some of this seems wild by soap standards of the day.

@Reverend Ruthledge Here is the montage. The scene is early on. Guiding Light 4 minute tribute- Daytime Emmys

Thanks @Reverend Ruthledge I'm amused by Doris' final offcamera exit being that she married an amnesiac. What a wild life. She should have had a spinoff show. Mike and Julie is another case, a very strong case, of wishing I could see the material (I know we all wish that!). If 1963 was the year where Mike broke Julie down, this seems to be the year where the show itself broke Julie down. She has no one, other than Alex Bowden, now a more benevolent version of the role he played with Mike and Robin a few years earlier (I wonder if he ever interacts with Robin now). Mike then rapes her (something I never even knew about the character until your posts), although I am not sure if the show considered it rape, and now she is completely isolated and closing out the year in agonizing pain with (I assume) a miscarriage on the way. I wonder if Bert or Papa know that Mike forced himself on Julie. It would have been a compelling story if Hope had ever found out about any of this but I don't even know how much the show mentioned Julie after her death. Is Ed entirely offcamera in these years? Speaking of that, I know Meta is still around in some capacity, so it's strange to see Bruce get more mentions than her. This definitely is not how I expected the Jane and George relationship to start. By the 1966 episodes they are both placid and support roles. It seems like all the obsessive/damaged women parts were taken from Robin and Jane and fully given to Julie. At this time Robin seems to be in put-upon heroine mode. A sad moment where she's asked about having a child and says she can't because of everything with Johnny, knowing that Johnny would later unintentionally cause her to have a miscarriage. Is Gillian Spencer playing Robin by this point? I wonder if Ellen Weston was fired or if she wanted to leave.

I thought they weren't but @Vee (I think) mentioned they still were. I think they're on this channel if you scroll down - there is a video for the women of the cast, one for the men, and one for the fans. Showrunner Productions NYC (Chris Marcantel) - YouTube

@EricMontreal22 The mention of Schemering's praise for 1984 makes me even more disappointed so little of the year exists. Someone just put the closing credits for a 1984 episode on Youtube but of course no episode. I can't say I have been blown away by what is available from 1985 but I'd be curious to how different 1984 may or may not feel.

I can already see all the "Will Woody and Soon-Yi stop by Soho?" articles for Mia...

I guess if one of his surviving AW scenes is any indication, we at least know he didn't mind appearing in skimpy attire.

It was when the show had only weeks left, IIRC. I am not sure why Jack was chosen either. He was barely being used on AMC at the time so maybe they had to pay him anyway and hoped the crossover might help. I wonder if he had any scenes with Angie (although I don't think Angie and Jack knew each other well anyway).

Neither can I. Maybe Shannen Doherty...she wasn't doing a lot at the time... I'm a big defender of The City but it's true that when it launched, they didn't really have compelling stories to launch it with, so pretty quickly (I can't remember HOW quickly) they jumped to the Masquerade (I think it was called?) serial storyline which was SOOO misguided on so many levels. Was this the network interfering saying "well we got SOME traction and attention from a serial killer storyline on Loving, so..." Was it just Brown/Esensten scrambling? (I would definitely ask Brown about this if I had the chance.) Because it was doomed to failure. The entire reason the Loving Murders were so unique was that anyone could die and we had some sort of history with these characters. By design, this is lost when you use it to really launch a new show (and did we think they were going to kill off Angie or Ally or someone else they had brought over from Corinth??) And, like I have said way too often, it actually played better as a late night soap as KOMO in Seattle aired it in the end of its run--and maybe could have captured the new audience they wanted? Now here's a weird theory I have. Loving was always owned by Agnes Nixon's Dramatic Creations company (her second--I believe OLTL and AMC were owned until 77 or so by Creative Horizons but I may have the company names mixed up.) What if ABC had some weird contract with them that made it make sense for ABC (despite the reported cost of The City) to play out that contract with a show--essentially a rebrand of Loving but maybe under the end of the same or a similar contract?? And then of course they pretty quickly just replaced it with their own show, PC. I have NO idea how any of this stuff works, but is there any chance that could be a factor? That could make sense as a reason. I haven't watched that period in great detail, the early period, but IIRC the only actual stories were Jocelyn being a hooker because she had been sexually abused, the transgender story with a dud actress, Jared being a horror, Angie and Jacob with a foster child, and Frankie being drawn into some kind of race war which led to the bar being bombed (I still don't know how that story was approved and I don't think it was ever mentioned again even as some elements like Jacob and Cassandra carried over to Angie's AMC return). At the time, Marlena de Lacroix said the show had baked a cake with no proper ingredients. (the opposite of an Agnes show, really). The Masquerade story did seem to be their way of trying to reset and have greatest hits. The story got some buzz, along with Tracy's arrival, but I guess that wasn't enough. Thanks for sharing the review. I see what Schemering means about longer scenes. I think they did get better at this (the whole Carly/Paul/Ava triangle is not a favorite of mine but there are some longer, beautifully acted scenes), but it was an issue. In some of the '80s episodes there isn't enough plot while by the early '90s there is a little bit too much. I can see why they didn't want to lose Catherine Hickland, Philip Brown, Randolph Mantooth and Laura Wright, but I also would have been more likely to just go with Angie and Jacob if they were going to be drastic. If they were going to bring as many as they did I would have brought Ava over too - clearly they wanted Alex to get to have romance and so on, but Lisa Peluso could light up any scene. Debbi was on PC for about a year and a half I think. She joined because she wanted to play a character who was harder-edged (I'm not sure if that's why she left but by the time she left the character had lost all edge). I remember a letter in SPW at the time from someone complaining that Debbi had been talking about wanting to play the first black bitch in soaps since she was on Generations, telling her that Diahann Carroll had already done that on Dynasty.

The only thing I can think is they were done with Loving but didn't have a GH spinoff ready, although that probably doesn't make sense as they had to spend a lot of time and money on setting up and promoting The City ,and Morgan's salary. They must have had some hope for trying the radical (on paper anyway) changes of The City while also recognizing the talented cast they would be losing with Loving. But it was probably never going to click, even if they hadn't wasted the first months of The City.

Thanks @EricMontreal22 I remember Schemering writing much of this in his Encyclopedia but it was published before some of his further thoughts on the 1888/1988 story. I do think the show improves again for some of 1989 but even then there are very rough patches (like psycho rapist Austin Buchanan). @titan1978 I have very mixed feelings on Lorne and SNL (I agree the show will go through a lot of changes if he goes - although at this point the show feels so lethargic and overstuffed that barring massive changes I don't think it will last much longer with or without him) but it's good to read opinions on the show that aren't from people who are either delusional, cheery stans, or people who just talk about how they have hated it for decades.

From "LOVING/The City" Soap Operas & Currently “GH,” Laura Wright Cameo- The BEST! Part One! He also has several Cameos with Lauren Marie Taylor and Randolph Mantooth. I didn't know she was still friends with Eric Woodall. Or that Jessica Collins tested for Ally.

Thanks. I guess that now qualifies as lost media...in more ways than one. I do appreciate that they were trying web series back then, even if the quality was not there.

I am probably wrong, but I think Emily and her daughter Alison (who was meant to be in her mid twenties by this time) were both in porn or maybe Emily was a prostitute on the streets and Alison was in porn...I think this led Alison into a crossover with Y&R due to a character's porn addiction. Maybe I got this all mixed up. I was not watching often as my ATWT was long gone. I agree the New York/Nixon soap crossovers worked best, especially AMC/OLTL (not with Linda Dano involved) and AMC/Loving. Susan Haskell briefly appeared in flashbacks as Ian's dead sister, which adds unfortunate questions about the Patrick/Marty relationship...

Yes, I think you're right. I don't expect anything to ever happen there but the mentions are respectful.

He was a better actor but I don't think he would have worked well as Gary in that show. Ted was a better physical match for Joan and later for Donna.

This is giving me deja vu to the 94-95 writing changes.