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During that last decade of the show, I took breaks from watching until I just gave up on watching, so I missed her run but her experience sounds accurate to what the show had become. It is heartbreaking, to think back to what the show had once been in it's history and what it descended into. Good for her, telling her truth. A lot of soap fans like to in paper over just how bad things got, in favor of a rose-colored image of the show, when we (and anyone paying attention) know there was a great deal of toxicity and mean-spiritedness. One only need to listen/read the accounts of some of the veterans (Bryce, Byrne, Fulton) who have spoken about how badly they were disrespected to understand this.

57 minutes ago, DRW50 said:

 

Not much here that would surprise, but it shines another light on how unhappy those last years of ATWT were (and it really did show up onscreen).

 

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1 hour ago, DRW50 said:

 

Not much here that would surprise, but it shines another light on how unhappy those last years of ATWT were (and it really did show up onscreen).

Maybe I am too easily-pleased but the fact she remembers Montega was a nice touch.

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I looked up who was in charge when she was on the show and, sure enough, it was Goutman. From everything I've heard and read about the man, he sounds like a right prick. 

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3 minutes ago, Bill Bauer said:

I looked up who was in charge when she was on the show and, sure enough, it was Goutman. From everything I've heard and read about the man, he sounds like a right prick. 

 

Oh, I knew right off the bat that it had to be Goutman. Mean-spirited and disrespectful were practically his middle names.

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You read about how awful some of these folks that were EP’s could be to the actors or the writers, and it’s always awful.  But at least people like Paul Rauch, Gloria Monty, Conboy, Linda Gottleib, etc had the chops to produce the hell out of a soap opera.  What did Goutman do?   Maybe a handful of decent years(never ground breaking or as dramatically sound and powerful as anything when Marland was writing) as an EP?  I hear he’s a good director, but again, not one of the greats...

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1 hour ago, titan1978 said:

You read about how awful some of these folks that were EP’s could be to the actors or the writers, and it’s always awful.  But at least people like Paul Rauch, Gloria Monty, Conboy, Linda Gottleib, etc had the chops to produce the hell out of a soap opera.  What did Goutman do?   Maybe a handful of decent years(never ground breaking or as dramatically sound and powerful as anything when Marland was writing) as an EP?  I hear he’s a good director, but again, not one of the greats...

I could be wrong on this, but I always thought that P&G kept Goutman in the EP position so long because he was good at staying within budget. He didn't break the show like John Conboy did over at GL with his massive cost overruns, and Goutman's ATWT never had to resort to the same extreme cost-cutting measures as Ellen Wheeler's GL. (That's not entirely a good thing, because the last few years of ATWT were sometimes pretty boring and might have actually been improved by having the actors deliver their lines in a snowy field in New Jersey). 

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10 hours ago, prefab1 said:

He didn't break the show like John Conboy did over at GL with his massive cost overruns, and Goutman's ATWT never had to resort to the same extreme cost-cutting measures as Ellen Wheeler's GL


This is why I think it is important to distinguish personal behavior from business decisions. Lord knows there are SO many creative decisions that I find galling from the last few years of ATWT but budget considerations have to be excused. Sometimes you have to make tough calls that gut part of the show in order to save the whole (we sometimes forget that about why some "vets" are not used as much - they probably cost more than the latest teen character).
What I don't forgive Goutman for is his personal behavior towards the show and some of its actors. There is a level of contempt that is not acceptable.

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Posted (edited)

ATWT looked pretty cheap by the end. It didn't get to GL levels but there were a lot of shitty, poorly-lit and recorded remotes in ugly locations - more and more each time I tuned in. The trend was heading towards Wheelertown. I will never forget that nonsense with Dusty and Billy Warlock fighting in like, the parking lot by the dumpster with the tinny noise of a track from the Inception score on repeat in the background. Embarrassing.

Edited by Vee
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I am not buying Goutman's alleged prowess as a director either. A director usually has to work well with actors (although some directors are known to be stand-offish and remote with actors) or at least make them feel respected. Goutman was never known to be one of those people, by most accounts.

I am sort of in between where @prefab and @Vee
mindsets. He was likely there to keep ATWT functioning on the shoestring budget P&G prescribed because they knew the end run was in sight and just wasn't about to spend any more money, even if that meant making the show look appealing. They no longer cared.

 

*Please pardon the grammatical errors--it's been a long day.*

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5 hours ago, Vee said:

ATWT looked pretty cheap by the end. It didn't get to GL levels but there were a lot of shitty, poorly-lit and recorded remotes in ugly locations - more and more each time I tuned in. The trend was heading towards Wheelertown. I will never forget that nonsense with Dusty and Billy Warlock fighting in like, the parking lot by the dumpster with the tinny noise of a track from the Inception score on repeat in the background. Embarrassing.

ATWT was no where NEAR Wheeler town but then again, that was not her fault...Rauch had been overspending for years and Conboy took it into overdrive.  However, if I had to see Kim wear that same damn pink suit again...(I can't believe the shows couldn 't have made a deal with a clothing store or manufacturer to feature their clothes and then run an ad line at the end...sure "Peapack Dress Barn" sound as good as "Lillie Rubin Salon South-Soutwest" but you gotta do what you gotta do.

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Posted (edited)
13 minutes ago, Mitch said:

ATWT was no where NEAR Wheeler town but then again, that was not her fault...Rauch had been overspending for years and Conboy took it into overdrive.  However, if I had to see Kim wear that same damn pink suit again...(I can't believe the shows couldn 't have made a deal with a clothing store or manufacturer to feature their clothes and then run an ad line at the end...sure "Peapack Dress Barn" sound as good as "Lillie Rubin Salon South-Soutwest" but you gotta do what you gotta do.

 

Here's where P&G the corporation was definitely out of their depth compared to a traditional film or television production company-- negotiating relationships. In the previous decades, P&G seemed to have a few personnel that knew how to do these things (I can remember when Cartier, Harry Winston, Bob Mackie and Brooks Brothers--a company that has also seen better days nowadays-- all featured heavily onscreen in the 1980s) but maybe those people all left the soap industry or passed away, leaving profit-hungry bean counters in their wake. I don't think that P&G ever functioned the way an arts production company would function in their decision-making process. Everything was usually about profit over art, which makes me believe that P&G projected when they wanted to end their two remaining soaps about 10 years ahead, as corporations are won't to do with projections. Arts production companies can barely plan for the year ahead.

 

I have worked at at least 2 arts production companies, I should know, lol.

Edited by DramatistDreamer
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3 hours ago, Mitch said:

However, if I had to see Kim wear that same damn pink suit again...(I can't believe the shows couldn 't have made a deal with a clothing store or manufacturer to feature their clothes and then run an ad line at the end...


I can only speak for myself but I 100% would accept soaps cutting budget in clothes hugely by reusing the same clothes -as real people do - if it allows for better budget for other visually important things like sets that don't look like papier-maché et decent camera work.
British soaps dress almost all their characters in non-descript Old Navy type stuff and it doesnt hurt the show in the slightest. Granted American soaps have a lot more socially-high characters that require better clothing than generally gritty working-class British soaps but I would have Reva doing every scene in that pink suit if it had saved money for a proper stable camera.

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1 minute ago, FrenchBug82 said:


I can only speak for myself but I 100% would accept soaps cutting budget in clothes hugely by reusing the same clothes -as real people do - if it allows for better budget for other visually important things like sets that don't look like papier-maché et decent camera work.
British soaps dress almost all their characters in non-descript Old Navy type stuff and it doesnt hurt the show in the slightest. Granted American soaps have a lot more socially-high characters that require better clothing than generally gritty working-class British soaps but I would have Reva doing every scene in that pink suit if it had saved money for a proper stable camera.

Sorry, no it was Kim Hughes I meant. I have no problem for characters reusing clothes like real people but ALL you saw her in was that damn pink suit...lunch at the hotel, dinner at the hotel, all the time. Poor Kimmer, Rauch NEVER knew how to dress her she just was getting bigger (as we all do) and he insisted on those damn pastel biz suits on every charcter...kind of off topic I know..but on topic was when the budget cuts let Zimmer use her own t-shirts etc and it looked totally wrong for aging clothes horse Reva.

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Zimmer was dressed much better as Echo on OLTL...in blazers and clothes that fit properly.

 

AMC had a deep with New York and Co...so I'm not not sure why P & G couldn't have done something similar 

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