Guiding Light discussion thread

[slick jones]

Warren was married, to Lesley Ann. She was bitten by a lab  mouse and caught the Dreaming Death.

[Soaplovers]

I think Warren Andrews was supposed to be a grey character.. not all bad and not all good.  He was saddled with that dippy nurse Lesley and once she was killed off during the Dreaming Death virus story.. he became a little darker with his dealings with both Alex and India.  He also owned a really interesting looking club called The Blue Orchid that was shown for about two or three years before it got phased out.

 

From watching the November 1986 videos, I just watched the botched Reva/Kyle wedding with Maeve breaking it up with the news that her son with Kyle was still alive.. and a stunned Reva getting hit by a car with the return of Josh.  With that said, I think the show reunited Josh/Reva too quickly at this point when the two hadn't spoken in two years.. and I think a slower build toward the two reuniting would have been better than what was done.  It was like one day she was all set to marry Kyle, and after calling off the wedding, she goes back to Josh.  Too sudden and too quick.  I'll even go far as to say I preferred Reva during the two years Josh wasn't on the show because she was allowed to breath and develop as a character outside of the Jeva label.  If the show hadn't bought Josh back in late 1986, I wonder where the character of Reva would have gone.

 

 

[JarrodMFiresofLove]

 

That's right, he did marry her. She was originally involved with Floyd.

Warren was kind of a Roger Thorpe type character. Not quite ethical, a bit shady and dark, but still there were a few redeeming features. And he was obsessed with power and status. At least that was my impression of him.

 

Regarding Kyle and Reva, I'm sure the show would've turned them into a long-range couple if Josh had never come back. In many ways Kyle was the replacement for Josh. Not only did he become romantically linked with Reva, but like Josh, he was the younger half-brother of Billy.

 

The Reva-Kyle-Maeve stuff was sort of repeated with Reva-Josh-Sonni.

Edited November 14, 2018 by JarrodMFiresofLove

[victoria foxton]

1986 was a hot mess. But watching Alex & India throwing each other shade is highly entertaining. 

 

[JarrodMFiresofLove]

I consider these the worst periods of this classic soap:

 

Almost all of 1986 (Jeff Ryder slumped after Long's departure in February; Mary Ryan Munisteri had interesting ideas but there were continuity problems; Joseph Manetta was terrible, I consider him the show's worst head writer).

 

The first half of 1987 (Sheri Anderson, who had a strong track record at other soaps, joined her husband Joseph Manetta but things got worse not better.)

 

The first half of 1995 (Douglas Anderson's writing was slow and insipid, I consider him the second worst head writer after Manetta.)

 

End of 2003 to mid 2004 (Ellen Weston did not get the characters at all and she destroyed the momentum Millee Taggart created.)

 

Mid 2008 till the last episode in 2009 (Jill Lorie Hurst couldn't overcome the problems with the new production model. As Kim Zimmer says in her book "the show had become a hot mess.")

[JarrodMFiresofLove]

My friend Mike posted some more Guiding Light episodes on YouTube from the end of 86 and beginning of 87. This is the Sheri Anderson/Joseph Manetta stuff. Not very good. One episode posted from January 87 seemed like the end for Simon & Jesse, and sure enough I see Rebecca Staab departed the cast around this time. But a wiki fan site says Shawn Thompson stuck around until April. Really? I thought they both exited together.

 

I also remembered they had been an off-screen couple. Their sex scenes in the episode from January 87 seem very real and intense. There is no mention of their real-life relationship on Staab's IMDb biography page. She is now with actor William De Vry. But on Thompson's IMDb biography page it says he and Staab were in a relationship for 12 years.

 

Going back to the recently posted episodes. This whole plot with India having a daughter (Dory) is cute but it doesn't really fit into the show. If they'd developed it more as comic relief, maybe, but as drama it sucks.

 

I was never crazy about Paige Turco as the original Dinah, but I do like the scenes between Ross and Dinah. And how this long lost love child is causing Ross and Vanessa to interact more.

 

The winter lodge episode from January 87 really seems to be pushing a bunch of new couples. Johhny & Roxy; Phillip & Chelsea; and of course Rusty & Mindy. I always thought Terrell Anthony was one of the show's most attractive guys in the late 80s. He and Grant Aleksander are significantly upping the show's pretty boy quota. Then we have hunky Robert Newman back on the scene as Josh (check out those new opening credits where Josh & Reva have that long sexy kiss). And James Goodwin gets to take his shirt off a lot as Johnny Bauer.

 

The younger women in the cast all seem to have the same hairstyles. Like they've all come back from a punk rock concert. The actress who plays Christine Valere (Arianne Munker) reminds me of a young Nadine. I think she previously appeared on As the World Turns. She didn't last long on GL...wasn't she was gone by the time Pam Long returned in the summer?

 

The story with Paul Valere is simply dreadful. You can see his murder coming a mile away. Anderson & Manetta were really churning out cliches. Even Henry's heart attack felt like a big cliche. At least William Roerick imbued his scenes with some dignity.

[Mitch]

When first brought on during Long's initial run, I think Warren was supposed to be a more "John Dixon" character butting heads with the respectable pillar families, in this case when he was brought on it was as antogonist to the Bauers (at that time Ed and Hillary were at Cedars, and Mo was the administrator.) I think he actually had a back story that he was in Med school with Ed??? But with the change of focus in Fall of 85 towards "big" storylines and Reva and the Lewises, he drifted into the  Spauldings and since he was not a convincing straight guy, was Alex's lachey.

 1986 really started that fall in 85 where there was an abrupt change in focus and the show became something entirely different.  Mike was written out, Hilary was killed, Ed was recast, Mo became a whiner, the Reardons were obscured...(Nola of all people did not get involved with the cabin mystery) The Four Musketers who just entered college the year before were thrown into adult jobs with Rick graduating med school overnight and Phillip as an exec. Mindy went nuts chasing after Kyle who she shot...and of course, Charita Bauer died so there was no Bert to keep the show grounded.

[JarrodMFiresofLove]

 

I feel 1985 was still a very strong year for the show. Pam Long was still guiding it. Yes, the focus was switching more to the Lewises and Spauldings, the Reardons were being phased out and the Shaynes were about to expand, but the Bauers were still central to the show even with a recast Ed. Hilary had been killed in the late summer of 1984. Mike's last episode was in November 1984 (though he did make some special appearances in 1997) and I believe Bert's last episode was in December 1984, because Charita became too ill to continue. I don't remember when Hope exited, I'm thinking it was in late 1983 or early 1984. But we still had Ed, Maureen and Rick to carry things forward in 1985 and 1986, plus Michelle would be added a short time later. Basically what happened with the Bauers is the producers just chopped off Mike's branch and made Ed's branch the continuing focus, which was later carried forward by Rick and his kids, since Michelle would marry into the Santoses.

 

It was the spring of 1986 when everything started to fall apart. Jeff Ryder was now in charge. He seemed to build everything around Kyle Sampson as the show's new leading man (I guess without Josh around they needed him to fill the void). Calla Matthews became prominent, along with her daughter Jessie and Jessie's boyfriend Simon (they had tremendous amounts of airtime). And the Shaynes were built up with the addition of Hawk then Rusty and finally Sarah would appear in 1987.

 

The summer of 1986 saw the pivotal return of Chris Bernau as Alan. This occurred around the time Ryder left and was replaced by Mary Ryan Munisteri. She only lasted three months as head writer, one of the shortest tenures ever. I remember she made Reva a summer camp counselor at a place called Camp Cayuga. The highlight if we can call it that was when someone tried to drown Reva in the lake at the camp. Horrible stuff. Before she was shown the door Munisteri introduced India's adopted daughter Dory and featured some faraway place called Andorra that India was either from or had visited, a dismal storyline, as well as Ross & Vanessa's long lost daughter Dinah.

 

After Munisteri left she was replaced by Joseph Manetta, whom I felt was even worse than Munisteri, if that was even possible. Manetta wielded a big axe and started chopping. He cut six characters immediately-- Claire Ramsey, Dr. Mark Jarrett, Kyle Sampson, Calla Matthews, Jessie Matthews and Simon Hall. The first four were gone by December, while Jessie & Simon lasted until the beginning of January. Also dropped from the cast at this time was John Bolger as Phillip. Grant Aleksander finished a role as a sleazy drug pusher on Capitol and he resumed playing Philip. I believe Aleksander was on both shows in November, because his exit on Capitol had been filmed in advance.

 

At the end of 1986 Jordan Clarke exited as Billy, but I think that was the actor's decision and they kept the door open for him to return later (the character was sent down to Venezuela to oversee H.B.'s wells). But they now had Robert Newman back in November as Josh. Patricia Barry was soon to leave as Sally Gleason, since she didn't have much to do with both her sons Kyle and Billy gone. There would be a ridiculous on screen death for the once vibrant Sally who slumped over and died in a chair. If I remember correctly she was sitting with H.B and Henry one day, started to feel sick out of the blue and croaked on the spot. That was the single worst episode I remember from this era. Barry was such a fine actress and deserved a much better send off. The character really shouldn't have been killed. She should've just left town to go off to wherever Kyle was now. Because of this error, Long was not able to use her later when Billy came home from Venezuela.

 

Meanwhile Manetta and his wife co-head writer Sheri Anderson flooded the canvas with newbies. They brought Chelsea Reardon on board, Christine Valere, Paul Valere, Cameron Stewart (a love interest for Dinah), some guy named Cat who tried to sabotage trucks at the Lewis construction site and Johnny's sister Lacey. With the exception of Chelsea, most of their characters did not catch on. The Valeres were pretty much done by the time Long returned in July 87. Long dropped Lacey. She did keep Cameron and introduced his father George (Joe Lambie) for a father-son abuse story but that arc finished in 88. Long was more interested in developing her new family the Coopers and getting the show back to basics with her favorite clans the Lewises and Spauldings.

Edited November 15, 2018 by JarrodMFiresofLove

[Khan]

Aside from Johnny Bauer's bout with cancer, I actually enjoyed watching GL during that period.

 

OTOH, anything from 1998 forward was a different story.

[JarrodMFiresofLove]

I don't think the cancer story started until late 87, under Long.

 

During Long's absence from February 86 to July 87, the show experienced a lot of behind-the-scenes turmoil and much of what made it on to the screen was unwatchable.

 

I think the biggest problem during those 16 months was that the subsequent headwriters didn't study her material, and they didn't have a real idea of how she conceived those characters (the Lewises and Shaynes in particular).

 

Earlier I watched another episode from January 87 where Hawk proposes to LIllian. We have scenes where Reva tries to set them up at Company so Hawk can pop the question. After Hawk finally does this, Reva and Roxy are both terribly excited about it. Now we know Long would never do that. When she designed the Shaynes, she had this carefully delineated backstory of how Hawk was a drifter but he was still emotionally tied to Sarah. Reva and Roxy would have known that Lillian was nothing more than a temporary diversion, a passing fancy for their pop, and that his heart really would always belong to their mama. So for Manetta and Anderson to do all this where Hawk's proposing and his daughters are egging it on, just seems very inconsistent with how the Shaynes were defined. Clearly they did not read the backstory Long created. So their presentation of these characters is off the mark. Their presentation of all the established characters seems very much off the mark.

 

In one of these episodes we have Alexandra whining to H.B. that he's excluding her in a business talk with Alan. The Alex that Pam Long created and wrote would never whine. She'd get right in there and show H.B. she's the brains behind Spaulding. Again Manetta/Anderson just do not know these characters like they should, and the results are abysmal.

Edited November 16, 2018 by JarrodMFiresofLove

[robbwolff]

I believe Joseph Manetta was just an interim head writer for September/October 1986 while Sheri Anderson was still contractually obligated to Days. As for Sally, it was Pam Long who killed off the character around October 1987. I believe it was just as Sally was about to reveal Marah's parentage.

[JarrodMFiresofLove]

 

Did Sally really last that long? I don't think she had many appearances in 87. The only thing I remember with her after Kyle and Billy left was she hired Hawk to be her chauffeur, a plot that was recycled later under McTavish with Marj Dusay's Alexandra hiring Hawk in the same capacity. Sally's on screen death was pretty bad...certainly not one of Long's better moments as head writer.

 

Manetta was not an interim head writer. He and Anderson were married and this was to be a co-head writing job for them. He got things underway while she finished at DAYS then she joined him. The episodes on YouTube for January and March 87 have both their names listed as head writers.

[Khan]

 

That's your opinion.  IMO, GL was watchable with and without Long.  However, that was because GL still had excellent sub-writers, such as Nancy Curlee and Stephen Demorest, who maintained some consistency throughout all the backstage turmoil.

[Soaplovers]

 

I could buy Roxie and Reva being excited about Hawk/Lillian.

 

With that said, I did notice once Long came back to the canvas that she did play up the bond that still existed between Hawk/Sarah.. while Lillian was always at work and the two never getting around to setting a date.  It looked like Long was setting up a Hawk/Sarah/Lillian triangle as a b or c plot.. but the writer strike happened.. and Lillian broke up with Hawk because of the apparent bond between Hawk/Sarah.

 

Sometimes a head-writer sees a character differently when they take over.  I noticed Roxie was more sub-dued and not quite as erratic as she was when Long wrote for her.  Was it Long, or the scabs, that had Roxie suffer a nervous breakdown over Johnny's cancer?

[j swift]

 

Eric Luvonaczek was always a weak link in Alex's character history.  First, I always confused him with India's father Leo Von Halkein.  Second, he suffered from multiple headwriters rewriting his motivation. Initially described as a poor artist who fell for Alex and had to raise her twins when her dad paid him off to leave town.  Then, Lujack describes him as a bad father, and he abandons Nick, (despite getting a settlement from Brandon).  But, somehow, Simon needed to avenge him?  

 

 

Alexandra was devoted to both her sons and her nephews.  So why did both of her stepchildren, Simon and India, dislike her so much?  It seems like she was a totally different character when she lived outside of Springfield.

 

However, after reviewing how many writers had their hands in the proverbial pot at the time that these facts were being established it is clearer how Eric became such an enigma.

 

The other character that always intrigued me is Mark Evans.  I think it is a clever casting choice to have typical good guy Mark Pinter play a guy with a hidden agenda.  I really enjoy watching the entire arc, especially because his ties to Quint are never tipped off during his introduction. 

 

One other random thought:  remember when Joe Lando played McCauley West in the summer of 1993?  I went back and read the articles.  The head of CBS, Jeff Segansky, asked Lando, who was on summer hiatus from Dr. Quinn, to take the role on GL.  Looking back was that just about money?  Was it counter-programming against GH and the return of Luke & Laura?  Why Joe Lando?  Do you think they went to other people first?

Edited November 16, 2018 by j swift