Guiding Light discussion thread

[JarrodMFiresofLove]

 

I think using Joe Lando in a summer arc was merely cross promotion, an experiment the network tried. Basically using his appearance on GL during that time to advertise Dr. Quinn. Lando had previous soap experience, having been on OLTL, so he could handle the format and the grind. Plus I am sure there was quite a financial incentive for him. And maybe the actor thought it would be fun to spend the summer in New York. The Macauley West character is not one fans typically remember from Guiding Light.

There had to be a bit of a triangle at first, because Long couldn't just come in and act like Hawk and Lillian hadn't developed a relationship. But if it had been meant to be a long-term triangle, Hawk would have married Lillian then realized his heart was still with Sarah. It seems clear to me that Long was just undoing what the interim head writers had messed up, by making it so Hawk would reunite with Sarah without any extra complications with Lillian. As a result of this Lillian never married again until the very end of the show's run when she hooked up with Buzz.

 

Long is the one who sent Roxy to a sanitarium. If I remember correctly the actress had quit and didn't plan to come back. So Long turned it into another story for Reva. It was mostly told from the point of view of Reva losing her sister. Of course later on in 1997 Estensten & Harmon Brown created a new sister for Reva in the form of Cassie Layne.

Edited November 16, 2018 by JarrodMFiresofLove

[JarrodMFiresofLove]

I think Curlee is overrated and there have been many discussions about her. But I am glad you brought up Demorest. I was surprised when I saw a 1985 episode on YouTube where he was listed as one of the scriptwriters. I thought he had only worked on the show in the 90s. So apparently he started at the bottom and worked his way up to a headwriting position.

 

On the IMDb his credits, which are incomplete, indicate he wrote from GL from 1985 to 1993, though on the wiki page for GL's head writers he is listed as being head writer until January 1995. At any rate, he enjoyed one of the longest most continuous runs as a writer for the show during that nine or ten year period. Remarkable given all the backstage turmoil.

 

Nobody ever talks about Demorest and his contributions. I think he must've been one of Jill Phelps' favorites, because he was co headwriter (with a revolving door of other head writers) during the entire time Phelps was executive producer.

[Soaplovers]

 

I do like that Long was adaptable and able to fix things that didn't go according to plan  (how she and Curlee managed to fix the zig zag the show went through during the writer strike is nothing short of amazing).

 

I always thought Roxie going crazy was out of character... she was spirited, determined and had a strong work ethic.  She was like Reva, but warmer and earnest.  It's a shame that the show never thought to bring her back (there was talk that Kim Zimmer tried to get the show to bring Roxie back in the late 90s, but the writers nixed that idea.. which is a shame since I would have loved to have seen how Roxie/Cassie would have interacted.

 

And while Hawk/Lillian didn't work out.. I did like that the show always mentioned their past relationship.. even in late 1995 when Hawk was trying to resume something with Lillian.. who was receptive till she found out that Hawk was trying to sabotage Annie/Josh's relationship and decked him.  However, I would have rather seen Lillian be single and content/happy with her life given the rough start she had in her life.. than being saddled with Buzz...but that is just me.

[JarrodMFiresofLove]

 

Sometimes one character is a seat warmer or replacement for another character. Whenever Phillip left for awhile, the focus would go to Alan's relationship with Alan Michael. The writers would just basically use the old Alan-Phillip plots for Alan & Alan Michael. When Phillip would come back it's usually because Alan-Michael was being written out, then we'd go back to the Alan & Phillip dynamic. Later when both Phillip and Alan Michael were off canvas, the writers repeated the formula with Alan & Gus Aitoro.

 

This same sort of thing happened with Roxy and Cassie. When the writers were unable to go back to the Reva-Roxy dynamic they introduced Cassie so they could have that sisterly type bond happening on camera with Reva-Cassie. Cassie became very popular, so popular, that there was no need to ever bring Roxy back. If Cassie had flopped right out of the gate, then probably we would have seen Roxy come back, or else yet another sister created for Reva. It was really a formula the writers used and there were replacement characters who kept the formula intact.

 

Another formula they had was Alexandra and her various sons. If it wasn't Alexandra and Lujack, then it was Alexandra and Nick. In between Lujack and Nick, there was Simon and though he was not her son, he still functioned in the same basic capacity.

 

When Jonathan was written out, they brought in a recast Shayne so that they could keep the formula going with Reva and a son.

 

Buzz and his children was another formula. When Harley left in the mid-90s, they brought in Lucy a replacement daughter for Buzz. I'm sure that if the show had continued beyond 2009, they would have aged Buzz's youngest son Rocky and brought him on to fill the void left by Coop who was killed off near the end.

 

Edited November 16, 2018 by JarrodMFiresofLove

[JarrodMFiresofLove]

Terrell Anthony who played Rusty Shayne ended up writing a play about the world of soaps:

https://www.samuelfrench.com/p/1663/quiet-on-the-set

[NothinButAttitude]

 

Good for him! 

 

One of the best things a writer can do is write on something from experience. 

[Mitch]

 

 

I think the Kyle actor chose to leave? Anyway, why phase out the Reardons when they had so much life left to them?? I would have had Quint die to let Nola have a new love, and Tony and Annabelle would be a new branch of the family (though they may have chosen to leave?)  I just don't get WHY the abrupt shift when the show hit number one Summer of 84 and then in the fall it all went to [!@#$%^&*]. 

 

Miss Sally was not a important character and Im glad she was gone for good. However, her death was a huge plot point as she had the info  that Josh was Marah's real father (Alan had it changed to that he could have a crack at Reva and she had his protection from Kyle) and during a heated exchange with Alex, she died. The plot was good (Alan hiding the truth, Reva needing his proection from Kyle who is finally shown to be a total assh*le, and Alex protecting Alan from his own crimes...) though a bit odd for Long to write as Alex did nothing to help Sally and then Alan had a gleam in his eye asking if Alex killed Sarah.  A big send off to a rather pointless character.

 

You forgot the Camp storyline had a "lake monster" (really a bad scooby doo villain trying to scare people away from Andoran  jewels) and was had an plot line where Billy was stranded with Roxie on an "island" ...so they were going to go there but luckily the writers got fired.  Though the highlight of the summer was Reva in a bathing suit snorkling and Zimmer was damn near at her peak then and looked great!

 

Edited November 21, 2018 by Mitch

[JarrodMFiresofLove]

 

Yes I remember Reva's infamous snorkeling scene. I think those Camp Cayuga scenes were done on location either in upstate New York or somewhere in New Jersey. Way before the Peapack years at the end.

 

The Billy-Roxy pairing was ill-judged and fortunately did not go anywhere. Jordan Clarke soon vacated his role, probably fed up with the silly direction in which those hack writers had taken Billy. Roxy was then paired with Johnny Bauer.

 

I was a fan of Patricia Barry and thought she made Sally Gleason more multi-dimensional than the writers probably intended. A perfect example of a veteran TV actress who elevated the tosh scripts that came her way.

 

One hanger-on character from this period I didn't particularly like was record producer Jackson Fremont (Michael Wilding Jr). He had quite a bit to do in Lujack's music story. But when Vincent Irizarry left and Lujack was killed off, Jackson managed to stay on the show as someone who carried a torch for Beth, though Beth would reunite with Phillip played by John Bolger. I think they kept the Jackson Fremont character around because he was the son of Elizabeth Taylor. He remained on contract from 1985 to 1990. But Long didn't really use him much during her second stint as head writer. He was surplus to the requirements. In short, deadwood after his introductory storyline.

[victoria foxton]

The Paul Valere murder mystery is a real chore to watch. I do like the chemistry between Mindy & Rusty. Johnny & Roxie were blah. As were Chelsea & Phillip. Alex & HB was such a strange and random pairing. But i don't mind them. I do like Sarah and Rusty. Christine Valere was a dud. The actress that played Christine was really good on ATWT. Wasn't her fault that her GL role was LAME. I really liked Sheri Anderson on Days. But her GL was SO MEDIOCRE and  GENERIC. Lujack & Beth played out the same story. But were way more interesting than Roxie & Johnny. I like the original Dinah. But the writers didn't seem to know what to do with her. 1986 wasn't great. But i feel that first half of 1987 was even worse. 

[JarrodMFiresofLove]

 

Thanks. This is exactly some of the stuff I've been saying. Long's second stint starts in July 1987. She quickly ends the Alex-H.B. romance, with those two going back to being just friends. She doesn't keep Phillip with Chelsea...Chelsea ends up paired with Johnny, when Roxy has a nervous breakdown and is written off. Rusty ends up splitting with Mindy and gets involved with some woman named Rose McLaren whom he marries. Mindy winds up marrying a new Long creation, Dr. Will Jeffries. Phillip has business struggles with Alan and Alex, then finds out Beth may still be alive, which sets the stage for a recast in the form of Beth Chamberlin (because Judi Evans had signed on to do a role on DAYS, a character she still plays to this day).

 

The Valere murder story was pretty much over when Long returned. And before Anderson & Manetta depart they introduce Johnny's parents and sister Lacey, but Long quickly gets rid of Lacey. Jack and Lanie Bauer, Johnny's folks, are there for Johnny's cancer storyline but they're gone by 1988. Dinah's beau Cameron remains until 1988, but they're both written out by Long. So aside from Chelsea, who ends up becoming more of a supporting character and lasts until 1991, none of Anderson/Manetta's characters really stick around.

 

I remember Kim Zimmer won the Lead Actress Emmy in May or June 1987. The daytime Emmy awards were usually around that time of year. I think she won for some standalone episode where Reva has a fantasy and does a cabaret act with Warren Andrews at the Blue Orchid. It had nothing to do with the main storylines but showed Zimmer's versatility and skill as a performer. When she went to the stage to accept the award that year (right before Long was announced as returning to the head writer position) Zimmer cried and said the show hadn't been very good lately but promised it would soon get better. And of course it did.

Edited November 21, 2018 by JarrodMFiresofLove

[robbwolff]

 

I never cared for the character of Jackson Freemont. I imagine they may have kept him around in hopes of bringing back Beth. Jackson was ultimately dropped from the show sometime in 1988 -- before Beth returned.

[victoria foxton]

Thanks for all the info. I only started watching GL in 1990. I can't wait to see the beginning of PL second run.

Edited November 21, 2018 by victoria foxton

[JarrodMFiresofLove]

 

I thought he turned up again later in a recurring capacity. But yeah, he was a dud. He was what I call a one-storyline character. After his initial story ended he should have been axed. I always suspected they kept him on in the hopes of using him to lure Liz Taylor to do another soap cameo (she'd been on GH earlier in the decade). Wilding later had a short-term role on Dallas, playing some art gallery owner involved in a scheme to bilk Howard Keel's character out of a fortune. He usually played smarmy characters.

 

So at least you saw the last two years of Beverlee's run as Alex. Marj Dusay, good in other roles, was an inferior recast (in my opinion) and didn't quite fit the character of Alexandra Spaulding. You also came in just after Roger and Holly had been reintroduced.

[victoria foxton]

MD's Alex was a buffoonish characture .

[JarrodMFiresofLove]

 

Yes, Marj's version was horrible in almost every sense of the word.

 

Re: the beginning of Pam Long's second stint...I am hoping the guy uploading episodes on YouTube posts the stuff from Long's very first week back. There's a very memorable episode I've never forgotten. Some gala or benefit is going on at the country club. Reva and Josh have broken up and had a massive fight. She shows up at the club dance in a flaming red dress. It was like Bette Davis wearing the red dress to the ball in JEZEBEL which I'm sure must have inspired Long.

 

Anyway the episode ends with Reva being left devasted by Josh yet again, being told by him things are over forever. She winds up on the floor. I don't remember if she was drinking or someone pushed her. But Josh is too angry to care anymore. And Alan comes up and offers her his hand and lifts her back up on her feet. It was a classic episode.

 

I probably have a few details wrong but I certainly remember the dress and Alan reaching out to Reva at the end. The increase in quality was automatic. At that time I was a teen who read comings and goings in Soap Opera Digest and was just beginning to pay close attention to the writers. But I knew watching that week of episodes someone was now in charge who understood the main characters. And that things were back on track.

 

Today when new head writers come in, or former head writers return, they typically have to finish off inherited plots and gradually reset the show which might take anywhere from three to six months. But leading up to that summer in 1987 the show had become so bad that Long came right in and somehow fixed it overnight. Literally within five episodes, by Friday at the end of her first week, she had turned it around. She basically ignored everything that had been done by the other writers in her absence. In all my years of soap watching I've never seen a bad show turn around so quickly and become great again within one week's time. But that was Pam Long, she was brilliant.

Edited November 21, 2018 by JarrodMFiresofLove