Loving/The City Discussion Thread

[j swift]

I have a mixed review of the murder story. 

 

On the one hand, the murders themselves were very inventive and the clicking pen promos were some of the best ever produced for daytime.  Given that it was the end of series, anyone could have been a victim, unlike other soap mysteries where the lead actors always survive.  I also enjoyed the nods to the history of the show and the characters who had left town (I'm trying to avoid spoilers for those who haven't seen the whole story now that it has been re-posted).

 

However, on the other hand, there really weren't any salient clues given within the story that allowed viewers to play along with solving the crime.  It seems to me that part of the fun of any mystery is trying to solve the crime before it is exposed on screen.  Agatha Christie's novels are beloved because if you re-read the story, the clues to solution were there all along.   Yet, with the Loving Murders, the actual murderer seemed a little random under the circumstances.  Her motivation was explained in a single scene at the end, with no resolve as to why she started murdering at that point, given that her family was subjected to tragedies for years prior. Her opportunity was never established, and her methodology was never explained.  How did she get from place to place?  How did she learn to rig a cement bucket, concoct a poisonous candle, and create toxic face powder (she certainly order them from Amazon)?  Toward the end of the series even the infamous clicking pen proved to be a red herring.

[dc11786]

Since schools have closed, I've spent most of my evenings watching "Loving." Within the past week, I was watching episodes from March 1994 when Buck broke things off with Stacey to protect her and the kids from the loan shark that was after him. As I was watching, I was actually thinking I wasn't sure how I would react to seeing Stacey killed as I had come to really like Stacey and Buck after not being too impressed initially. I really like Stacey and Buck. It was really hard watching Buck finding Stacey's body. 

 

On a related note, the montage Buck has of his relationship with Stacey in those July 1995 episodes was also featured in the March 1994 episodes set to Whitney Houston's "I Will Always Love You." I think there were only a few switches (the clips with Stacey in the orange shirt replaced clips specifically related to Buck and Stacey's breakup). It's a good montage.

 

The 1995 episodes are such a tonal shift from anything prior to it. A lot of these new crop of characters are rather harsh. Danny Roberts seems really sleazy and gross. Richard is unscrupulous. Jocelyn is aligned with self-centered Tess and seems to be willing to do anything for a case. I think Lorraine the sloppy mess is the nicest of the lot. I don't think Brianna is intended to be as hard as she comes across to me. I like Jacob's relationship with Buck but he seems a little self righteous at times as do so many on the current canvas. Maybe If I saw the transition to this crop, I wouldn't mind them as much. 

 

The mystery is neat. I cannot deny that. I even really like some of the small moments in these episodes. Angie and Charles coming home to get the message from Stacey nearly broke me even though I felt it became a bit much with Stacey explaining everything in detail. I thought Ava turning Stacey's death into a "woe is me" moment and being self aware was a very honest moment. I know there was an actual scene between Stacey and Ava where they made amends after Dinahlee left Corinth. I thought Clay's monologue about being a fraud is beautifully in character. The conflict between Clay and Curtis over sending Curtis to Dunellyn was very strong even though I hate what is happening with Curtis. I initially hated that virtual reality sequence with the "Muskrat" stuff, but it became very poignant towards the end when Trisha and Curtis turn on their parents. Is that Joseph Cross as young Curtis?

 

While I think Harmon Brown and Essensten have made the deconstruction of "Loving" entertaining, I don't think the build of "The City" is strong. Maybe its too early, but what exactly is the viewer suppose to turn into "The City" to see storywise? The show focuses so much on the serial killer that there is nothing else to focus on when the show ends. I had a similar complaint about the Salem Serial Killer. When a story takes over a show, it makes it hard to build off the conclusion. Given what I've heard about the early days of "The City" I assume things didn't improve. 

[OzFrog]

So I’m now caught up to everything Loving Murders that has been uploaded thus far. I have a few questions actually regarding prior plots:

 

* How did Casey die?

* What did Danny Roberts do to Casey and Ally prior to this that’s got Ally so hellbent on revenge?

* What was the actual resolution to the whole Trisha stuff? All I know is that she was presumed dead after that car accident in 1993, and everyone thought she was dead although she wasn’t.

* I read that Buck was also involved in that storyline somehow. Wasn’t he Trucker’s brother or something?

[soapfan770]

 

This is something I have never understood is how ABC let a show they owned get pre-empted so much in the entire county. Even though I know the show aired against Y&R just could never figure out why so many local affiliates couldn't be bothered to run 30 mins of programming for any off ABC's 30-minute soaps, no wonder the networks started forcing stuff once the wide majority of affiliates had really seen their power diminish in the last 20 years. 

 

 

[Vee]

I watched LOV off and on before the murders. I found it a cozy little show, with the same warmth all of ABCD had at that time. No story grabbed me but I liked the vibe and some of the people. I loved the Jeffrey Osborne theme (still one of the best soap themes, ever) and loved Debbi Morgan as Angie - this was how I first became familiar with her. No one else made much of an impression with me as a kid beyond Cat Hickland, Darnell and Buck.

 

I understand why people could've found it to be a betrayal. It was shocking to watch the core of the town be wiped out. I've also always been fond of Lauren-Marie Taylor (Stacey), who still enjoys cult fame from the Friday the 13th movies. But I think LOV had had so many interesting new resets, experiments and paradigms, some worthwhile and many failed, that a murder mystery was simply a valid capper. Today I enjoy exploring Agnes, Guza, Taggert, etc.'s many different experimental periods with the canvas, but I don't regret the Loving Murders. I wish GH would do it today.

 

I asked the same questions re: Casey and Trisha a few years ago. All I can say is the handling of both Trisha's exit and final return are nonsensical to me unless they were praying Noelle Beck would do The City.

Edited April 15, 2020 by Vee

[chrisml]

I think Loving had fantastic actors the last few years (the only years I watched as a kid). In rewatching these episodes, the show is so much better than most of the soaps we've gotten in the 25 years. I still think it's a huge injustice that actors from this last storyline did not get nominated for an Emmy--one in particular should have been the frontrunner.

[John]

The Producers were trying to get Noelle Beck to bring Trisha to the City as well as recastng both Ally and Alex's kids but ABC canned the show

[soapfan770]

 

Agreed, and that when I first discovered it out of curiosity characters like Ava, Egypt, and Shana fascinated me, so different that the CBS heroines I was use to. 

 

Trisha's exit was weird, dead but not dead and then ran off with Jeff Hartman to Rome while amnesiac, plus the appearance of the back of her the following year before Trisha returned in person in Loving's final weeks.  The other weird thing that struck me as odd to no end was Jack's disappearance around the time I first tuned in. Jack is presumed drowned - he fell off the boat on the honeymoon for his second marriage to Stacey. A body was found, but Clay identified it and Jeremy later proved it was NOT Jack. Clay identified it because he wanted to marry Stacey and drive her crazy so that he would own controlling interest in Alden Enterprises....so that he could destroy it. Stacey pined for Jack when it first happened and was so vulnerable to Clay's advances. Nothing more was brought up again about really happened to Jack. 

Edited April 15, 2020 by soapfan770

[dc11786]

Buck Huston arrived in town in March 1993. Trisha was working at Alden University in the art department. One day, Trisha was crossing campus and was attacked by a mugger. Buck saved her. The McKenzies were so grateful that they offered Buck a place to stay since he had just arrived in town. What they didn't know was that Buck was Trucker's half-brother (they shared a father). Buck had come to town to scam the McKenzies. Shortly before this, Curtis Alden, Trisha's brother, returned to Corinth after a stint in the Persian Gulf. While overseas, Trucker and Curtis had met and had a secret they shared (they were involved in the death of Dante Partou). Eventually, Trisha found a picture of Buck and her brother together and began to put together there was more to the story. She confronted Buck and fled from the ties. 

 

On the road, Trisha called Trucker from the road. She told him that she had something to tell him regarding Buck. As she was getting back in the car, she was carjacked by some random dayplayer. The carjacker crashed the car. The car exploded. The audience was left thing Trisha died. Several episodes later, Trisha woke up and stumbled into the back of bread truck. She ended up at some small diner not far from Dunellyn, the mental hospital. At the diner, she couldn't remember anything, but I think downplayed her situation to Marge, her new waitress friend. Based on the bruises and Trisha's elusiveness, Marge assumed she had been a battered wife. 

 

Shortly after, Jeff Hartman, Trisha's ex-husband, was released from Dunellyn stating he planned to stay far away from Trisha. He ends up at the diner and sees Trisha, who is now claiming she is Crystal. Marge tells Jeff that "Crystal's" husband beat her. Jeff tells Trisha he is going to Rome and she asks to join him. 

 

At the time, April 1993, I do believe the hope was that Noelle Beck would return. I also think the setup was there for a revival of the Jeff / Trucker / Trisha triangle. 

 

Through the rest of 1993, you have Tess Wilder come to town to work as Christopher's nanny and scam Trucker of the money he was receiving from Trisha's estate. Trucker knows Tess is being dishonest, but doesn't know the true extent. In the meantime, Curtis has married Dinahlee and become paranoid about the relationship between Dinahlee and his father. At the same time, Tess starts threatening Curtis by revealing she is possession of the gun he used to kill Dante Partou, her then dead husband. The problems escalate quickly in Curtis and Dinahlee's marriage where he is envious of the amount of time Dinahlee spends at Pins due to Clay's prior involvement with the bowling alley. Curtis torched the place, felt guilty, and fled Corinth. 

 

During Curtis' time out of Corinth, Dinahlee and Trucker reconnect. Dante Partou, Tess' husband who Curtis believed he kills, arrives in Corinth and starts stalking the Alden family. Curtis is missing at the time. Dinahlee, believing that Curtis abandons her, gives into her feelings and kisses Trucker just as Curtis, who has been locked in a cage  escapes in order to see Trucker and Dinahlee kiss. 

 

Curtis is eventually freed and resumes his marriage to Dinahlee. From his time in captivity, Curtis' previous anxiety and paranoid has developed into trouble sleeping. He is diagnosed with post-traumatic stress syndrome around the start of 1994. Curtis knows that Trucker is a threat to his marriage and offers a cash strapped Buck money to convince Trucker to leave town. Buck refuses, but becomes more suspicious when Curtis asks Trucker to become his partner in the Rodeo bar. 

 

Dinahlee stays with Curtis because of his health issues while Curtis desperately hopes he will be able to get Dinahlee to love him. Most people are aware of Curtis' condition and its treated fairly seriously. 

 

In the spring of 1994, Trucker starts receiving signs that Trisha is alive. There was something to do with a bird, and some rocks. Finally, Trucker drops flowers on Trisha's graves and finds them on his doorstep at the Tides. He is convinced Trisha is alive and asks Alex Masters to investigate.

 

At this point, June 1994, Shana and Leo married in Las Vegas and moved to Rome when Shana received a job offer. In Rome, Shana and Leo ran into Jeff, who is with Trisha, but manages to hide her from Shana and Leo. At this point, Jeff learns that Trisha is "dead" and wonders how Trucker handled it. This tips Shana off. She fears that Jeff might hurt Trucker so she calls Trucker.  Trucker calls Dunellyn and learns that Jeff was released on the day Trisha died. Trucker goes to Rome to investigate. 

 

In Corinth, Buck doesn't believe Trisha is alive. Based on Curtis' previous actions, Buck believes Curtis is behind the gifts. He eventually gets Curtis to confess the truth, which leads Dinahlee to learning the truth. Dinahlee chases after Trucker and tells him Curtis' role in Trisha's gifts. At this point, Trucker drops the issue. 

 

Robert Tyler decides to not renew his contract late in 1994. In January, Trucker has a nagging feeling that Trisha is alive and has her body exhumed. Either in June 1994 or January 1995, it was revealed that the coroner have never matched dental records to prove that the body belonged to Trisha. It was just assumed Trisha had died. Anyway, Trucker learned Trisha was alive and went to Rome to try and bring her home. I believe Dinahlee returns to Corinth with the letter from Trisha to the Alden family saying Trisha wants to continue her life as Jeff's wife. 

 

At some point between February and July, Trisha has a miscarriage and goes off the rails. This is revealed I think in September or October 1995 when they begin to suspect Trisha is the murderer. When Trisha returns in 1995, most of the people she has interacted with are dead or offcamera. Other than Gwyn the only other people she would know would be Alex, Ava, Ally, Buck, and Kate. Everyone else had arrived in Corinth after her departure or had no connection that I recall (Steffy). 

 

[Vee]

Man, I still have it bad for Buck 25 years later.

 

I had a tween crush on virtually all the men on LOV/The City. I thought Darnell was the coolest dude on soaps back then - I didn't realize that, at this point at least, Jacob was simply Jesse with dreads. I dunno that he was ever anything else. But hey, it worked. I did appreciate that they never killed Jacob offscreen on AMC later on. He was little more than a Jesse stand-in most of the time, but that era meant something to me.

 

Was the Buck/Tess/Thom Christopher/Curtis stuff a mix of Agnes and Bob Guza? This is what I mean by fascinating re: LOV - where else will you get an Arab crime boss in a bad wig, Cat Hickland scheming, a cute guy in a cage, Lisa Peluso doing Erica Kane Jr. and a hyper-earnest series of attempts at redoing Phil/Chuck/Tara Martin and youth social issue stories, two black crossover superstars and a gothic serial killer mystery all on the same show?

Edited April 15, 2020 by Vee

[dc11786]

The original Tess / Buck / Curtis stuff was Millee Taggert and Robert Guza. They arrived in January 1993. Dinahlee ended up at Trucker's cabin with "Ronnie," her mystery man, in February. Taggart had sent Curtis off to the Persian Gulf in March 1991. 

 

Somewhere in between, Curtis had met up with Buck and they both had met Tess Wilder, who was married to a wealthy but dangerous Middle Eastern man. Tess convinced Curtis to help her escape her husband and Buck was going to fly the plane to get them out of Kuwait. During Tess' escape, Dante showed up and Curtis was forced to shoot him. While Curtis was shooting Dante, Tess and Buck flew away on Buck's helicopter. This is all backstory that is revealed over several months. 

 

Initially, we just know Tess as the woman that was between Curtis and Buck. In May, Tess shows up at a medical clinic in Maine where Trucker has taken Christopher to get some peace after Trisha's death. Tess follows Trucker back to Corinth and gets a job as Christopher's nanny. Buck and Curtis are both concerned that Tess is back. Tess is blackmailing Buck and Curtis into silence. Curtis has killed a man and Tess knows that Buck was scheming when he first arrived in Corinth. When Tess leaves her job as Christopher's nanny, she ends up working as a secretary at AE when Curtis arrives to work there before he leaves town. Tess still has the gun that Curtis used to kill Dante. At the same time, she tracks down Mac Huston, Trucker and Buck's father, and brings him to town. Mac claims to be dying of an illness that would require expensive treatment. 

 

In late August or early September, right before Guza and Taggert leave, Tess reveals Mac has been conning Trucker and Mac reveals the same about Tess. This is around the time that Curtis and Dinahlee are talking about having a baby until Curtis learns that Dinahlee has been secretly on birth control. Curtis torches Pins right around the time Nixon arrives in September 1993. 

 

When Dante appears in late October 1993, this is Nixon. Nixon reframes Alex Masters return story stating that the reason he came to town was to protect Clay Alden and he used the excuse that he was in love with Ava as his cover. Dante menaces the Aldens while taking over Dinahlee's apartment above the bowling alley. It is there that Dante keeps his mystery prisoner. There are definite homoerotic elements to the Dante / Curtis story that are played up. When we first learn of Dante's 'friend,' Dinahlee suspects that Joe (Dante's alias) is hiding a lover from Dinahlee. Joe admits he has another male in the apartment before revealing it is a cat. It is Dinahlee who suggests that Joe name his new cat "Kitty." Dante spends the rest of the time referring to the guest as Kitty. After a couple weeks, it becomes clear that Curtis is the person even though he isn't seen. They even reshoot pictures with Chris Marcantel in the role before he is actually seen as Curtis. 

 

Kidnapping Curtis was only part of Dante's plan. He also learns that Buck wants money so that he can support Stacey, who is well off thanks to Jack. Buck gets involved in a stock market transaction with John Bolger's Malcolm Christopher, who is on Dante's payroll. Dante also starts tormented Tess by first sending her a scarf she wore on their wedding day and later putting a spider in her flowers at the fashion show. It is the spider that leads everyone to think that Dante is the one tormenting the Aldens. 

 

Dante kidnaps Dinahlee and holds her hostage in a cave. I believe Curtis also turns himself over hoping that he will be able to save Dinahlee. In the end, it is Tess who turns herself over to Dante, offers to kiss his spider tattoo, and then plans to shoot him if it wasn't for the syringe that Dante sticks himself with. The cave stuff all happens around Christmas 1993. 

 

Dante becomes involved with Egypt in February and supplies her the means to go through with her staged murder. Egypt's murder was really fun. It's so bizarre watching how the cops acted during the Egypt murder case vs the Corinth murders. Just two completely different tones. 

 

[Franko]

@dc11786, I know it's been said before, but we are so, so lucky to have your detailed descriptions of LOVING. Between those, the increasingly frequent new uploads and additional insight, I'm looking at the show with new eyes. Now I wish it wasn't the one ABC soap my grandma never cared for.

[DRW50]

 

I agree. It's been a real tonic in a hard time to have the increased uploads the last few years, and dc's commentary and threading stories together has helped a great deal to add to what we know and can enjoy.

[Vee]

Yes, I've always so appreciated the info - especially on a show with as convoluted a BTS history as this.

[titan1978]

Has there ever been a better soap name than Tess Wilder?  Eden Capwell comes close, but Tess Wilder is so great.

 

Buck is pretty hot and a compelling character/actor.  I also really like Tony.

 

I’ve always heard about Laura Wright and Paul Anthony Stewart on this show, and I remember seeing photos of them in soap mags.  I guess he was gone by the time we got to the murders.