Loving/The City Discussion Thread

[Vee]

 

I found Charles boring as hell, but I remember seeing the finale episode again some years back and finding his romantic reunion with Lorraine really touching and wonderful. I was also disappointed a little, but then again, Roscoe Born (RIP).

[OzFrog]

 

Laura Wright hasn’t aged a day in all the roles I’ve seen her (Ally on Loving, Cassie on GL, and Carly on GH). She does has that certain edge about her that just draws you in. And her chemistry with Ted King is off the charts (no wonder they kept him on as Danny). Did their characters on GH ever get together?

 

I agree about Ava as well - I pick up on her being absolutely scared out of her brains, and it is totally believable and well-written. And even now in this storyline the neuroses are still there, if not even more amplified.

 

 

 

[Vee]

They ended the Carly/Lorenzo romance literally right before she took over the role. It is beyond me why it was never picked up again, except that the show would not allow Ted King to outshine Maurice Benard.

[DRW50]

It's already been mentioned a few times in this thread, but what Loving managed to accomplish with their black canvas in 94-95 is very rare, and is one of the reasons these episodes hold up so well. Fine, charismatic actors are given juicy material that was generally not given to black performers on most soaps, outside of Y&R (even on AMC in the '80s, Debbi Morgan struggled with the limited writing for Angie). Debbi and Maggie are especially riveting to watch, with Darnell close behind, but everyone is great.

 

It's a shame this didn't hold up on The City, which had that badly received racism story and chose to focus so much on Angie wanting a baby above most other character traits, but I guess they still tried. 

 

I've sometimes wondered if GL took a page from Loving by expanding their black canvas and even hiring Geoffrey Ewing in what was initially a very complex role. Unfortunately, Laibson and McTavish made an awful, offensive mess of the whole thing.

[OzFrog]

 

There is a nice little “triangle” slow burning with these three throughout the whole murder mystery that I’m also enjoying to an extent. Incidentally I watched an episode of The City earlier today where Sydney (Morgan Fairchild) had been pushed down a lift shaft. By this point, Alex and Jocelyn looked like they were together,  and LLC by this point had quite a *unique* hairstyle which I personally thought didn’t really suit her. But that’s for another time...

[Vee]

 

We discussed this here long ago, but I think it may also be down to Brown and Esensten, the writers for LOV/TC in this period. For all their many flaws on various shows, they frontburnered Angie, Jacob, Lorraine, etc. And when they did AMC in 2008 the cornerstone of their run was, again, Debbi Morgan as Angie, Jesse and the Hubbard family return. I believe they also added Mario Van Peebles and his son, along with Cassandra from TC. They added like six black characters.

Edited April 15, 2020 by Vee

[DRW50]

 

I'd forgotten about Mario (and that they brought Angie and Jesse back to AMC). The latter was by far the best move AMC made in its last years. 

 

I guess Rauch or P&G probably stopped them from being able to do much at GL.

[OzFrog]

 

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[Errol]

"Loving" was MY soap. My family watched the ABC soaps, particularly "All My Children'" and "General Hospital," but "Loving" was my show. I would even SKIP school just to watch my favorite character, Ava, and her hijinks with Alex and Jeremy. The theme song was just a dream. The only show at the time with a lyrical opening. Man I was pissed when it was canceled and replaced by "The City." Had no clue it was happening since I didn't get the soap mags at the time. Was just getting into it then.

The new show was alright, but most of the characters that moved over weren't the ones I cared much for. To me, this is the soap that could be rebooted easily even if you get a whole host of new characters and change the setting. Just follow the beats of Agnes Nixon, and this murder mystery story in particular, and you'll have the BEST 30 minute soap in ages. Just need people who aren't going to shit on soaps with malarkey and sci-fi nonsense to do it.

[dc11786]

 

Like has been mentioned, I think the main attempts were the rape accusation and saving Tyler when he fell down the well. There is even some dialogue in these episodes where Danny downplays his role because he specifically didn't shoot Casey. 

 

I do appreciate that Casey manages have some legacy on the show through Ally's photography and Steffi naming her daughter Casey. 

 

 

I don't think Ally and Danny could have worked, not that doesn't mean it didn't stop them from trying. If "Loving" had continued as "Loving," the best bet the show had was bringing on a recast Cooper. I also think the show might have been well suited to have tried and lured Eric Woodall back as Matt Ford. I think if they had Matt Ford return as a cop involved in the drug storyline working undercover they could have accomplished what they were trying to do. I think it would have blended what they were trying to do with Tony and Danny more effectively. 

 

The episodes I have rarely have credits. I don't know if King was brought on contract or recurring in 1994. I cannot imagine that the show wasn't aware that Weatherly or Stewart might leave. There should have been some contingency plan in place. However, everyone was jumping ship at the time. All the good will that Nixon had bought the previous year was gone because Weatherly, Stewart, Collins, and Tyler quit. Sidelining Marcantel was clearly a mistake. They could have easily gone the route of Buck / Stacey / Curtis for a bit before bringing Jack Forbes back to town. I recently read that Dennis Parlato had informed Jean Dadario Burke he wasn't resigning with the show either and that he had only stayed on into the summer because of the revamp. 

 

 

The last episode is on YouTube. Charles and Lorraine get back together, but I thought they were staying in Corinth. I don't think Bree or Frankie are featured, but maybe they are. 

 

Amelia Heinle was very good on "Loving." Nixon spends most of 1994 crafting her into one of the best drawn characters on the show at the time. For their time and their show, I think Coop and Steffi were a decent draw. My guess is they knew that they couldn't keep Heinle, but they figured they might get people to watch "The City" if they could see Cooper and Steffi reunite and leave together. 

 

 

I agree. When Charles was first introduced, I didn't care much for his backstory (the dead fiancée), but when they focused on Charles and Frankie, I liked the story a bit better. I think there was some interesting beats to the original Charles / Angie relationship involving Frankie's jealousy and the frank talk about sex in the age of HIV and AIDS. I also really like Janie Sinclaire, Buck's daughter who was involved in kidnapping Angie and later dates Frankie. I think it was a mistake to kill her off so quickly. Bree is more interesting than I expected. There are definite shades of Steffi Brewster to her with the model with mommy issues. I think Pat Baxter is a wonderful talk to. I'm surprised they didn't bring her back to AMC when they Jesse / Angie returned towards the end even briefly.

[DRW50]

 

I hadn't even known until the last few years that they had Pat on Loving, as by the time I started she wasn't seen (that I can remember). It is too bad they didn't have her make more appearances; the glimpses I've seen of her on AMC, like counseling Natalie, are compelling.

 

In SOD's best/worst of '94 issue they listed killing Janie as the worst decision of 1994. I still don't really know why that happened. It's such an odd and rushed choice.

 

Your idea of bringing Matt back is great. I never could take to Tony, he was just overbearing to me.

Edited April 15, 2020 by DRW50

[soapfan770]

 

This Carl!!!! 

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 I had enjoyed Peluso on Loving and AW so much. I remember the soap mags had made it seem like Cass and Lila were coming on to ATWT permanently after AW ended, I was so disappointed that it was just for a visit during their honeymoon, and then for Cass to go on recurring for the next several years without a single mention of his wife. While I respect Peluso's career wishes, it 's shame no one else really was able to snag her really after that or convince her otherwise to stick around daytime. 

[Forever8]

I started watching the Loving Murders Episodes earlier this morning. And I must say the show finally felt like it knew what it was about. A small diverse close-knit community with class differences. 

 

The black characters had more to do than the characters of color our given today on the soaps on 2020.

 

I join in with Charles and Angie not doing anything for me as a couple. I didn't know she married him until I heard Stacey's message. Debbi Morgan was my favorite performance when it came to Stacey's death. I didn't know they were friends.

 

I don't really care for Tony nor Danny.

 

Lisa Peluso has beautifully grounded Ava into a mature woman who still seeks ambition and love. A far cry from the young vixen who needed a wealthy man to provide escapism from her working class life. She and Randolph Mantooth have great chemistry. They're now one of my favorite soap couples. Her reaction to Stacey's death was good too. 

 

Where is Christine Tudor? I wonder what she is up to these days?

 

 

Edited April 15, 2020 by Forever8

[titan1978]

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Amelia Heinle is pretty good on Loving!  I barely noticed her on AMC, and I hate her version of Victoria.  But she’s much more compelling here.

 

The more I see Buck the more I love him.  Same with Darnell, even though he isn’t really Jesse.  Debbi Morgan is, as always, spectacular as Angie.

 

From what I can remember about the soaps airing at this time, only Y&R and GL had blacks casts as well utilized and integral as Loving did!

 

I did not watch AW, it was opposite GH in my town, so I have never really seen much of Peluso.  She is fantastic.

 

It’s pretty compelling.  Had my network carried it at the time I would have watched this storyline and moved to The City for sure.

I think this show deserved a

better shot.  PC had way more clearance than Loving or The City did.  Imagine If affiliates had given the show a chance.

 

[victoria foxton]

I like how both Ava and Neal were used as red herrings. It's great seeing Larry Haines as Neal. 

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Jacob and  Lorraine had off the chart chemistry. I can't take my eyes of Maggie Rush. She gave some mesmerizing multilayered tour de force performances. Buck and Ally had a nice chemistry. Laura Wright was once really good. Now she has a fake coldness to her. With a resting bitch face, I forgot how good Amelia Heinle was as Steffi, She been so blah in her other 2 roles on AMC and Y&R.