OLTL: Discussion for the week November 2

[Cheap21]

4th? What were her other 2?

[Vee]

No matter who wrote this show, OLTL was never, ever going to have a bunch of scenes where Cole and Markko turn out to be juvenile homophobes. It just wasn't going to do that to two young heroic teen males. And I wouldn't want it to. I don't see why it's so unbelievable that the teens would support gay marriage, especially in a culture today where yeah, a lot of kids are coming out early and do have gay friends. At least, that was beginning to become the status quo when I graduated high school less than a decade ago. There's always going to be homophobia and some degree of bigotry, but things are not as they were. It's not like OLTL has not done gay stories with bigoted and closed-minded people many times - I don't know why I should act aggrieved now because it's doing a more positive story reflecting a changing mindset.

[DeliaIrisFan]

My sentiments exactly, Vee. And BTW I think they did show the "other side" - via the protesters, who were shrill, tiresome and one-note. Seemed like a pretty accurate depiction of homophobes to me at the time, and I certainly haven't read anything in this thread that has changed my mind.

I thought the last few episodes have been lovely. The story leading up to it has been dissonant and more than a little out there, but so is the issue - I'm actually a gay man who thinks the most positive thing I've heard about same-sex marriage may just be Ilene Kristen's recent quote: "It's not an institution I have ever chosen to be a part of, but if people want to be in an institution then they should be allowed to be." But I am so proud of this show for doing something so original and in its way beautiful. Even if it goes off the air in the coming years, along with a good number of the other remaining soaps, in a way OLTL will have the distinction of actually going off the air in the 21st century. And it dragged this moribund genre into this century with a few episodes that focused on some of the same values that soaps used to be about in the last century: love winning out; admitting your true feelings; unlikely people helping each other out; and a community that (for the first time that I have seen on soaps probably since I was an adolescent) I would actually want to be a part of it. What a concept. I don't expect it to last - this is ABC Daytime - but I have nothing but respect for the people responsible for pulling this off.

[DeeeDee]

Yep.

And just like real life their "argument" didn't even make sense.

[MichaelGL]

I don't get the argument where some claim that the opposition hasn't been shown. Not only did we have the protesters, we had that cop that Fish worked with, and I suppose Markko's dad (I say this bc the actress that plays Mrs. Rivera was playing the scene in today's show as if her character she was not so vehemntly opposed to Dorian's relationship as Mr. Rivera was). What do you guys want? A homophobe in every scene with Kyle and Fish?

[DRW50]

I think they could have had a third party candidate who opposed gay marriage. The previous mayor was a big homophobe and he was obviously popular enough to serve several terms, so it was an issue.

However, it's not like the other stories are realistic, and if I have to choose between a somewhat fantastical story about gay marriage, at a time when we can see plenty of opposition to gay marriage in real life, and stories that glorify rape and violence and misogyny, then a few months for a gay marriage fantasy isn't so bad.

I just hope they will write good material for Fish and Kyle and keep them around because I do believe they are both great assets to the show.

[oltl1]

So am I and I've been a fan of this story from the beginning. I just saw the November sweeps commercial and this show is going on FIRE. I have so many questions that I hope are ALL answered. I would hate for the show to cop out at the last minute like the did with BE takeover. Although the set up for that story I found more engaging, as I said I really have enjoyed this story so I hope they don't drop the ball again.

[Toups]

I don't even want to see the promo! Spoiler-free all the way, it's so exciting this way - I don't know what's going to happen specifically, but I sort of know who's behind the stalking (if it's who I think it is).

I really hope Ron got the chance to tell the story he wanted to tell: 1. The story that was suppose to happen at the Go Red Ball in Feb 08 and 2. The original plan of who is Rex's father. I personally love both twists, so I hope it happens.

[oltl1]

What do you know that I don't. I'll take any and all hints that you care to tell. If you haven't already guessed, I'm not above begging. I've always wondered how the show would be today if the writers strike had not happened when it did. From what I could see, it seemed as though Ron had the power to tell his stories the way he wanted to and at the pace he wanted to up until the strike and for a short time after and then Frons worked his magic.

[DRW50]

Rex has become so overexposed and unsympathetic since that time a year and a half ago, I wonder if this reveal will have the same impact.

I wish Miles were still around, I would rather have seen the story about him being Addie's son, especially as that may have given Blair better material than her stories over the past year+.

[JackPeyton]

I couldnt agree more.

Also, i dont think OLTL has ever shown why either of these young guys wouldn't be accepting of it. They have been portrayed, for the most part, as pretty chill guys.

[SFK]

Well, the thing is, and I missed today's episode, but the mass gay wedding episode definitely felt like a little bow was tied at the end of it (no pun intended, knot, bow, whatever). I felt like the revelation of Oliver's true feelings/sexuality was well enough paced, and perhaps his emotional diarrhea once he came out was accurate, but it has felt a little rushed the past couple of weeks. Now that the "event" is over, it's all about how we deal with these characters as living breathing human beings instead of as "figures" in a gay s/l. The hope is that they'll play out storylines just like their heterosexual counterparts, and yes, we'll need more gay characters if we want to do cheating and assorted love triangles, but it would be nice to see a gay couple involved in an intriguing front burner storyline that didn't revolve around their sexuality. I'm not a romance on soap opera person to begin with, but I enjoy waching couples team up Nick and Nora style, like Viki and Sloan when they were trying to take down Dorian, you know, have Kyle and Fish involved in a "caper" instead of s/l upon s/l about how tough it is to be gay. But if OLTL treats its gays anything like its straights, the honeymoon will be over before you know it.

[SFK]

I too agree with Vee, but I also say that as someone who's always lived in rather tolerant large metropolitan areas in the north east. I mean, it's interesting, refreshing even, to reconnect on Facebook with kids from middle school who made gay jokes and dropped F-bombs now make grownup comments in support of gay rights and what have you. Plus, going to arts school and working in the arts, I've had many friends who didn't come up in an atmosphere where being associated with gays was at ALL acceptable, but when you're thrown into an enviornment where you're going to get to know people whether you like it or not, all the bullsh!t gets swept away and you begin to see people for who they are as fellow human beings and you could give a [!@#$%^&*] about what dudes on the block have to say about your "F-word" friends. But not everybody's so blessed. There are plenty of people who know no gay people, don't want to know any gay people.

I still say that the way to go is to have a "beloved" character be the opposition, not cartoonish extras. I mean, imagine if Renee was the homophobe. But of course, just like with Clint Ritchie and Eileen Fulton, nobody wants their character to be the heavy. It's funny, they gave Maucieri her walking papers for arguing her character's stance, but would they have fired and replaced Pat Elliott if she resisted Renee being against gay marriage? They probably would have respected her wishes and passed the buck to dayplayers.

[JackPeyton]

I agree.

They could even have someone who is not homophobic just be opposed to gay marriage. But then there is a debate all in itself...

I just wish this storyline wasnt so rushed, wasnt about newbies, and wasnt so cartoonish.

[chyti]

I know a lot of pretty chill guys who are quite uncomfortable around gay people, and yes with Markko's upbringing I can see him definitely having some struggles with the whole homosexual lifestyle.

The opposition in this storyline have all come from day players and have been extreme, stereotypical examples, it would have been interesting to see a contract character struggle with this issue or if not struggle just be middle of the road not fully accepting but not opposing people the right to live their life.