Members DRW50 Posted November 4, 2009 Members Share Posted November 4, 2009 Probably, yes. Renee has become all but irrelevant and if Pat complained about the writing Renee could easily go the way of Larry Wolek. I think one of the problems is there aren't a lot of "beloved" characters left on OLTL in the sense of someone with stature who could oppose gay marriage believably, without looking like a complete hypocrite or an ass. You don't have anybody like Vince Wolek or a Larry Wolek who was basically a decent person with a quiet life. I guess they could have dragged Clint back out of the homophobe box, but in the end the story didn't seem to be that much about the politics of gay marriage and gay marriage probably won't be an issue in the future. Even if OLTL is on in a year or two years, I will be surprised if Kyle and Fish are still there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DRW50 Posted November 4, 2009 Members Share Posted November 4, 2009 I agree about rushed and cartoonish but I think being about newbies is probably one of the reasons it kind of worked. Having few ties to the biggest toxic waste dumps on the show meant there was at least some viewing alternative. I also don't mind that they didn't bother to try to manufacture ties or make an old character return as gay, because old characters who return usually end up dead or written out after a short while, unless they are Todd/John props. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JackPeyton Posted November 4, 2009 Members Share Posted November 4, 2009 thats a very good point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DeeeDee Posted November 4, 2009 Members Share Posted November 4, 2009 Celebrating bigotry? Pass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Doyen Posted November 4, 2009 Members Share Posted November 4, 2009 I don't think anyone said that Cole and Markko needed to be juvenile homophobes. I don't think they even needed to be swept into the s/l at all, to be quite honest. And if they had to be included, they could have been simply neutral or apathetic, having no strong feeling one way or another. If anything, I think that is probably closer to how young people view the issue today. Teenagers may be more generally tolerant than they were twenty years ago, but I don't know any who go off on gay-supporting tangents the way that Starr and Langston do, or bother sitting around having round table like chats with their BF/GF's over homosexuality the way those four have this past week. It was so fake. I'm sorry, but it was. They came off like a very plastic, glossily PC educational film strip, and another unnecessary prop for the story. I have no reason to think that Cole or Marrko (or any of the kids) would be adamantly pro or anti-gay. I could see them all being either on the fence, or indifferent. But the way this s/l was set up, you couldn't be indifferent. The way this was set up, you had to be a 100% gay supporting zealot. Or damned to that fleeting group of bigoted cartoonish naysayers, who in the end got the kiss off from Roxy. IRL, it tends to not be quite that black and white. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DRW50 Posted November 4, 2009 Members Share Posted November 4, 2009 Markko was probably in the story to set up tension with Langston. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DeeeDee Posted November 4, 2009 Members Share Posted November 4, 2009 That's exactly how they were. They expressed their feelings about & support for gay marriage but also expressed their disapproval about the way Dorian, Nick & Amelia were going about it. That's about you & the people you know. There are people who feel strongly about civil rights. The "indifferent" people were the ones behind the barricade with the signs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Doyen Posted November 4, 2009 Members Share Posted November 4, 2009 And how is that an example of what you quoted me talking about being neutral or apathetic, having no strong feeling one way or another? If they expressed their support of gay marriage, then that's choosing a definitive stance. Their disapproval of Dorian's scheme is pretty much a separate issue, but in the end you see that they still went that mass gay wedding, didn't they? And there are people (who like I said) have no dog in this race, but are tolerant of and cordial to other people based on one-on-one (or general) interaction. Again, Starr and Langston came off like a GLAAD-sponsored After School Special. Then they weren't indifferent. No, the "indifferent" people like John (who doesn't slight Fish for being gay, but also doesn't go out of his way to cheer him on it) tended to their own business, went on about their lives and didn't bother to show up in support or protest. I imagine that the "indifferent" people probably cared more about about the *other* platform issues in this mayoral campaign (although I have to wonder if there were any, certainly doesn't seem like it.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JackPeyton Posted November 4, 2009 Members Share Posted November 4, 2009 simply saying you support equal rights is far from marching and protesting. There are various levels. They didnt go out of they way to say they support same sex marriage, and showing up at a mass gay wedding doesnt mean much. We had a gay pride here a few months ago and plent of people showed up to see what it was all about. Thing cole came off exactly like you described. tolerant and cordial. he didnt seem to really be passionate about it. starr and langston were passionate about it tho, and i didnt find that unbelievable. there are tons of teens out there who are heterosexual who openly and passionately support LGBT rights. i dont think cole or markko would have been involved if it wasnt for starr/langston/dorian. john is very indifferent, and while true cole isnt because he did speak up about where he stands on it, he isnt very far off from indifferent about it. Again, there is more than just against or indifferent or in support of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DeeeDee Posted November 4, 2009 Members Share Posted November 4, 2009 Markko & Cole WERE neutral. They supported gay marriage but they weren't advocating for it or against it. No. That's their opinion on an issue. Actively advocating FOR or AGAINST an issue is taking a definitive stance. It's not. Their disapproval was directly linked to the issue at hand. For Langston & Starr. Which makes their opinion irrelevent. Starr & Langston came off like young people who were enthusiastic about a cause they believed in. Had Clint been at the ceremony dressed in pink THAT would have been a GLAAD-sponsored After School Special. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members EricMontreal22 Posted November 4, 2009 Members Share Posted November 4, 2009 Maybe it depends on whereyou live--living in a fairly major city I do think most guys my age or younger, who are going to ollege or university, are more or less comfortable with gays. Marko and Cole weren't planning on going to the wedding--theyw ent cuz of their girlfriends. Marko's in film school where, like all arts depar4tments, there would be more arts people. I do agree showing more active lack of support would be more realistic but it seemed obvious (and i have many probs with this story) that wasn't the direction theyw ere ever going in. That said soaps, including OLTL 15 years ago (and to a tiny amount a few years back with Marcie's bro) have covered that so much already it seems to me. Most gay storylien son soaps do have them up against characters who don't approve0--AMC in 97 did a good job of showing some fo their "bad" characters were pro gray rights and some fo their good characters more close minded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DeeeDee Posted November 4, 2009 Members Share Posted November 4, 2009 The anti-gay marriage stance didn't need support cause their "arguments" are baseless. Just like in real life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members EricMontreal22 Posted November 4, 2009 Members Share Posted November 4, 2009 I definetly agree, but playing Devil's advocate it could be stated that to make it more realistic they should have hadone or more of the major characters not support it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Juliajms Posted November 4, 2009 Members Share Posted November 4, 2009 Exactly, just because I think these two are unrealistic doesn't mean I want to see them throwing the other F word around or Markko dumping Langston once he got her in bed or Cole telling Starr to get an abortion or not caring what she does with the kid because it's basically her problem. I don't think these guys are realistic portrays of 18 year olds, but I'm ok with that. If I want that reality I'll watch HBO or volunteer with a youth group. When I'm watching daytime TV I'll take the sanitized version. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JackPeyton Posted November 4, 2009 Members Share Posted November 4, 2009 But why? Because they are heterosexuals who dont have an issue with homosexuals? I cant belive that people dont know there are plenty of straight teenage males out there who dont care if someone is gay. There are even tons that support it. Look at groups like the Gay-Straight Student Alliance. But again, Markko and Cole were not out advocating for the gays, they just didn't seem to really have an issue with it. I mean, the majority of my friends are straight guys 18-22, an none of them care if a person is gay or not. Some of them are pro-gay marriage, some are not. Some o go out and rally and support the LGBT community, some do not. I think it was a goo realistic portrayl of young guys of today. Of course some have issues with it, and not all are accepting and understanding, but not all are against it either. The only reason they went to the weddings was because of their girlfriends. I seen lots of guys at Pride events with their girlfriends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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