Guiding Light discussion thread

[slick jones]

Otalia had to be the most boring and  over-hyped couple toward the end of the series. Concentrating on characters most viewers liked -- and I know most viewers  felt Olivia really was anything more than a San Christo -Hell Leftover. I recall Olivia was basically just tossed at every guy on the show for years like confetti on New Year's Eve. Seeing more Vanessa among others would have taken the sting out of those final days of Ellen Wheeler's "Nightmare Known as Peapack".

Edited May 6 by slick jones

[Khan]

I agree!  I was all for a same-sex couple on GL, but dear God!

[Paul Raven]

Looking at Ellen's apartment explains why GL was in the state it was under her tenure.

Sitting around that bland space would stifle creativity big time. 

Did she use left over green paint from the Cedars do-over?

[P.J.]

Her list of offenses against soapdom is long...Jammy, Otalia, firing JvD, Gus Aitoro, etc etc etc.

The only good thing she did was bust up Vanessa and Matt, and I speak as a Billy/Vanessa fan.

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BTW, does anyone remember what the five fan favorite moments were (for the 50th anniversary)? One was Nola getting busted, one was Roger's death. And I assume one was Reva's "slut of Springfield" moment (because...of course...RME) What were the other two?

[Contessa Donatella]

Jerry verDorn was not fired. He was put on recurring, a mistake, I agree, but he was not fired. Facts matter. 

[VelekaCarruthers]

Wheeler was in over her head for the times; even the most seasoned producers would have had huge challenges coming in on budget after the severe cuts.  Look how bad Days has been for years on a shoe string budget. What I will say about Ellen is that she maintained a solid writing staff and they were people who knew and loved the show (Kreizman, Hurst, Gold, Dunn and Swajeski). I never had a problem with their writing (generally). Goutman, on the other hand, first got rid of Broderick and Walsh on ATWT, for Laiman who was never successful on anything but Days and the show was doing fine under Broderick finally. Wheeler got rid of one of the worst head writers in history, WESTON.  And once Sheffer had his nervous breakdown, Goutman stuck with Passanante who never had a stellar moment in ten years as head writer.  I say the true and inexcusable damage to GL was under Phelps and what she did during her last year + with disassembling the writing room with her utter need for control.  We'll never know the full story of Curlee's departure, but here's how Phelps handled it. Over several months she brought in Leah Laiman, Millie Taggart, Peggy Sloane, Joyce Corrington, (rehired Demorest after five week departure) only to fire him 8 months later, Tom King, Craig Carlson before bringing in Doug Anderson as head writer (he lasted seven months) after the show had started to settle down with Demorest/Taggart as head writers (after Phelps forced committee writing with five HW then four when she drove Mulcahey out when his two year contract ended) - they should have been given a chance to stabilize things. Doug Anderson was a college professor who knew nothing about writing a show.  Then, P&G made matters worse by hiring Liabson who had petered out on Another World a year earlier and paired him with the Dena Higley's twin, Megan McTavish (I give her credit for one of the coffin nails too with the Brent plot, killing Nadine etc).  94/95 set the show back a great deal.  I'm sampling the Rauch/Estensen/Brown era after having watching the original run, and they were FIYA for a while.  To me, Rauch did his best overall producing on this soap during his era there.  The sets, music, credits, clothes, casting, were mostly superb.  They get blamed for the clone story but that idea came from Wendy Fischman and Brown discusses this in his Locher interview, but he doesn't name names.  It was reported to be Wendy's idea at the time.  Even the Labine tenure had quality too it.  The severe budget cuts were insurmountable and ridiculous and sad.  it is painful to watch that last year although I did rewatch the final week and I cried. I didn't cry at the end of ATWT; there was nothing left to feel about that show.  And whatever criticism one can level at Pam Long, her era lived until the final episode.

 

Edited May 7 by VelekaCarruthers

[kalbir]

Look at where the P&G shows were creatively by June 1994: GL Nancy Curlee was gone from the writing team. As the World Turns Douglas Marland material had run out. Another World had been limping along for 15 years by then.

The P&G shows were effectively over in the aftermath of OJ.

[TEdgeofNight]

THIS! Otalia was a disaster! I couldn’t stand them. Olivia was so badly written at the end. And Ellen Wheeler. No wonder she never worked in daytime again or given interviews. She must be bowing her head in shame for what she did to GL. Disgusting. 

Agreed. Jammy and Otalia were the worst! Wheeler was in WAY over her head and killed GL. 
I have the 50th anniversary tapes (yes, tapes! lol) in my basement. I can’t remember the other two. 

[AMCOLTLLover]

I remember I was a kid in school and people seemed to like Jammy

(I loved them too)

Why do people hate that pairing so much here?

[DRW50]

Do you mean she made Gus worse? I know he was around several years before her arrival. I never had a great deal of interest in him whoever was producer at the time. 

I didn't have a big problem with Otalia, other than the obvious censorship and how much the whole "groundbreaking" element and feverish fan support obscured all the contrivances in the story. I think other than Billy/Vanessa and maybe Dinah/Mallett I was just not interested in any couples on the show by the time I tuned back in, so I didn't have as much resentment as fans who stuck it out all through the '00s might have. 

I tend to agree with @VelekaCarruthers that the fatal damage was done in the mid '90s, and also that ATWT had a worse writing staff...not that it justifies the terrible choices made under Wheeler. Still, I believed at the time she ended the show better than many could have, even with the various flaws, and every soap finale since hasn't proved me wrong.

[Sapounopera]

Nobody can deny that. It was her GL that lasted until the bitter end.

Kissing cousins, SORAS going crazy with Susan Lemay being the same age as Leah Bauer, depressing stories, claustrophobic sets, Reva having another baby, creepy opening, Cooper-mania, yet the show could have been saved... until the new model premiered. 

I found Otalia boring and overhyped. And after the show got cancelled Crystal Chappell did everything she could to keep the Otalia myth alive. Please...

Why should CW be punished for her fillers? She probably likes them, otherwise she would have them dissolved. I am sure she is happy with them.

So GL's last season was shot in Ellen's apartment? The walls are so Cedars. Wasn't part of her couch in Alan's office? 

[Contessa Donatella]

venicetheseries is not an extension of or a continuation of Otalia! If anything it is a refutation of it's limitations!! It literally began with the lovers physically consummating, something Otalia was denied. And the idea that Otalia was over hyped is hilarious! It got no promotion from the show AT ALL! The only "hype" it got was word of mouth by & from fans & a tiny bit from LGBT press.

People here largely share a huge set of biases that they enjoy reinforcing in each other. Rarely does one read a fresh idea here. You, me & all of a sudden Veleka are oddballs.

One thing I forgot to say. If people do not like Tom Pelphrey & so Jonathan Randall, well, there's no way they'd be into Jami, ya know? Strictly common sense there. 

Thanks so much for expressing some fresh new ideas. I have rewatched the last 3 days about 6 times & I weep every time. 

Now, to correct some errors of fact. EW did give interviews after GL. Yes, she left daytme. Most people who used to be in daytime are no longer. Surely it cannot have escaped notice that there's not enough of it to go around. EW when last I heard was President  of a Girl Empowerment organization.

Edited May 8 by Contessa Donatella
People can be idiots.

[VelekaCarruthers]

Let's give Pam Long and Kim some love. This is one of my favorite episodes (for the Reva scenes) from Pam's problematic second term (don't get me started on Johnny's cure or Rose/Rusty).  Kim won the emmy off of these scenes and Don Chastain (ATWT script writer and former Tom on GH) is excellent. This is one of those times Kim drove it home without chewing the scenery and of course, the script was written by the amazing Melissa Salmons.  Pam's issues were in the casting of other characters i.e. Morgan as Dylan. Terrible from the start and throughout. Couldn't hold up next to all the powerhouses.  And same for the girl playing his gf.  Unwatchable.  But Carl Evans and Beth E were fire....Quality 

 

[Reverend Ruthledge]

One was definitely a tribute to Charita Bauer and it was introduced by Ed Bryce. The other one, I BELIEVE, was Phillip learning out who his real parents were. I'm not 100% sure on that one but I know it was Grant Alexander and Michael O'Leary introducing it. I'm pretty sure that was the scene shown. 

[kalbir]

 

Yes, Spring 1983 to Summer 1984 Pamela Long got the ratings to rebound from the post-Marland slump and set in motion characters and storylines that would carry GL through its final 25 years but the short-term success ended up causing long-term damage. It was too much chasing 1980s trends which wasn't sustainable and the ratings from Fall 1984 onward reflected that.

I may be one of the very few that loved the Robert Calhoun years. I feel GL was going strong and hitting its stride during his run even though the ratings didn't reflect that, which is a disappointment to me.