Ryan's Hope Discussion Thread

[NothinButAttitude]

OK. I was wondering that when reading the book--it was never really mentioned what defining characteristics the two had. They brushed over Johnno waffling between Delia/Frank traits (which would've been smart), but it seemed to be more about who was going to bag Lizzie between him and Ben. 

And I don't think they mentioned anything about Ryan's characteristics. Her stories just seemed to be about her being a young bride or yearning for a man. I do wish they would've divulged more about the college arc that she was investigating. 

That aside, I think had RH continued, I think many of the veteran actors would've probably departed. At least, Ron Hale and Michael Levin. Both kind of gave me hints in the book that they would've left once they got comfortable. 

[j swift]

The idea that the male author of the book about RH history referenced Mary and Jill as strident and judgement 48 years later inspired this idea.  Second and third wave feminism were not yet written about in 1989, but it would've been so interesting to have Ryan, Lizzie, and Nancy Don embody the ideas of how feminism had evolved since Mary and Jill in 1975.

For example, the choice to postpone parenthood in order to establish a career was a contemporary romantic obstacle in the mid-70s.  But, by the mid-80s, women were being told that they could have it all, babies and a career.  So, using the perspective of progress would've created intriguing fodder for stories between the generations of women.  Then you throw in the intersectionality of Zena, whose race and poverty did not afford her the same privilege to pursue whatever she wanted, and you could've had some radical stuff for daytime.

Unfortunately, most network executive felt that the audience only wanted stories about wealth and international intrigue because they always underestimated the fan's intelligence.

 

Edited May 2, 2024 by j swift

[Paul Raven]

Taping the show straight through was standard practice at that time. It was only when shows went to an hour that they began taping out of sequence. I remember reading that Days struggled when they went to an hour because they were still trying to tape the show straight through and it was too hard on the actors.

At some point I assume RH  was no longer 'live tape' and began taping out of sequence as tape editing became more sophisticated.

[NothinButAttitude]

But would they had been able to accomplish that type of effective storytelling had they still been on air is what I am wondering. B/c I'd still imagine that if all were still the same, RH would've just taken a major blow by the early 90s with Yasmeen leaving for Baywatch and Tichina leaving for Martin. And given the show's constant recasting, I think fans still would've been annoyed by it. But it is nice to think "what if."

 

@j swift didn't they say in the book that RH started taping out of sequence when ABC took over? Or was it when Ellen or Joe became EP? (re: @Paul Raven comment)

Edited May 2, 2024 by NothinButAttitude

[danfling]

Tchina Arnold did not leave Ryan's Hope to appear on Martin.    After the cancellation of Ryan's Hope, she was cast by ABC to played Sharla Valentine on All My Children.   She probably would have remained on Ryan's Hope had it not been cancelled.

[NothinButAttitude]

 

I know she played Sharla on AMC. I was saying IF Ryan's Hope had continued, she would've still possibly left for Martin, which would've resulted in that era still suffering from the cast departing and numerous recasts. 

[j swift]

The “ifs” become impossible to predict under these circumstances.

Because, IF RH was not going to be cancelled, then maybe Nancy Addison would not have left when she did.  And, IF RH was to continue, we don't know much longer Tachina and Yasmeen had on their contracts.  And IF RH was to continue, we don't know if they would have made further personnel changes in production, which may have affected Ron and Michael's motivation to leave.

So, while it is fun to think about the possibilities of RH in the 90s, there are too many unknowns to predict with any certainty. 

[Sallyinlondon]

@NothinButAttitude and @j swift  thanks for the explanation

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i am always a little surprised that people find Jill/Mary a little preachy.  They are my mother's generation (i think Kate Mulgrew is a similar age) and their struggle with being a "career woman" is something she and her peers would have found fascinating.  I was born in the late 80s and me and my friends were the first generation in our semi rural town to expect to go to university and have a career job alongside child rearing (which I believe is behind the US).  I really liked seeing their struggles and can resonate.  I love that Jill is a successful lawyer, i find her very inspiring- mary too in that she won't sacrifice her job for her man/child.

[j swift]

I share your surprise, and it is a lingering concern about the book that both characters are referenced as strident and judgmental by the author, without a source validating that is how they were interpreted by the audience.

As I mentioned, I could see why women at home might align themselves with Delia over Jill.  But, I think we can all agree that the Claire Labine's intention was to portray both women, and their choices, as being aspirational.

[DRW50]

I've never read the book, and I'd say both characters, especially Mary, were often strident and judgmental. The actresses, at least when Kate played Mary, balanced the writing, but it was always there to me. I think Jill was a difficult character to write because she was aspirational but we also never stopped hearing about how sad and lonely she was. 

Anyway, I don't know if this was ever posted here before. It's a few minutes of a live recording from September 18, 1979.

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[j swift]

But the question with regard to the book is did people think that in 1975, or is that a 2024 interpretation in hindsight? Of course this is purely rhetorical, because we don't have a time machine, and I can't find a 1975 review that mentions the concern.

[DRW50]

To me the characters are even called out on the show at times for this, it's just the actresses carry the flaws off.

[~bl~]

The author of the book mentioned how he didn’t watch the show in the early years and only saw them on Soapnet. He started watching in real time later in the run. And he also admitted his love of Delia, from when he started watching the show.

[DRW50]

I think if you are a Delia fan you will see those characters differently. It's a credit to NAA that I was still a fan of Jill's in spite of how much the show played one-sided games with the ladies in the early years. I was never much of a fan of the other characters the show used Delia to prop.

[Sapounopera]

I just finished the show's first season (250+ episodes) and I loved it.

Ed and Nelle were killed within a few days. As though someone told TPTB to get rid of the older characters.

Nick Szabo vanished as well. His young daughter Reenie briefly appeared and got some scenes with Buckie. It is crazy to think that this girl would turn out to be Brooke English.

I like Roger and Dee. Love their scenes. Frank's acting is shockingly bad because of the actor's drinking.

Not that crazy about Jack and Mary. KM shines as Mary, but I find the story rather boring. 

Pat is adorable and who knew, Justin Deas is likeable as Bucky. 

Jill is stunning and so sophisticated. I never miss her scenes. 

What I found weird is that Mary vanished from the show for several weeks/months. Delia/Frank/Jillian is the show's big story.

I also liked dorky Faith. The Kenneth torture porn story seems as though it came from the network in order to boost the ratings. Nancy Barrett has just appeared and she is captivating. It looks as though the show tries to forget the Kenneth story and nu-Faith seems like Jill 2.0.

The family scenes are amazing. HG is the perfect matriarch. It feels like watching a classic play. And the sets are great.

Normal people drama is much more fascinating than the problems of the  uber rich.

PS: I expected Nelle to be revealed as Buckie's mother and her marriage to Seneca to be another version of Kay and Phillip Chancellor.