Ryan's Hope Discussion Thread

[j swift]

I'm glad that there are more people to talk about the book.  I liked all the parts about the history of the development, and the retelling of the plots.  As well as the humorous backstage stories about filming in the park, the opening sequences, and Louise Shaffer's story about her ill-fated Emmy submissions.  For me, it highlighted the idea that soap productions are like any office scenario, where success has many fathers, but failure is an orphan. 

However, weeks later, my lasting impression is that it badly needed an editor.  I began skipping through parts where every time they would introduce a new actor, the book would go through the litany of interviews of the friendly (or occasionally unfriendly), recollections of the rest of the cast.  It got to the point where I could accurately predict who Michael Levin would like or dislike, so I didn't need confirmation every time.

[Sapounopera]

At least Amanda was gone for fifteen years lol. Faith showed up with a brand personality after... a month?
BTW I will never forget GL for the Amanda madness.

[vetsoapfan]

So true.

I remain saddened and perplexed at how many people failed at Ryan's Hope; particularly creative personnel who (to me) had succeeded so well elsewhere. Pat Falken Smith was good at Where the Heart Is, great at DAYS and GH, and even a wonderful surprise during her short stint at TGL. Claire Labine was also a winner on Where the Heart Is and especially Love of Life. To see writers of their talent screw up an intelligent, erudite, thinking-man's soap like RH was mind-numbing. The Prince Albert and ancient Egypt plots were painfully stupid, and PFS' entire tenure at RH felt forced and broken. Destroying Ryan's Bar proved with that one move alone why everyone involved in the approval of the plot should not have had any control over the soap. They didn't understand it or care the show's history. The destruction of the family bar was as egregious as the mob shoot-out in the Bauer kitchen (!!!) on TGL years later. What an audience-alienating and destructive incident. UGH!

I agree, the book needed some judicious pruning. I am grateful for all the work which went into it, and I was happy to read the candid stories and anecdotes, but parts of the book could have been trimmed here and there, particularly towards the end.

(I did enjoy the potshot Gordon Thompson took at Paul Rauch; I'm glad it was included in the final draft, LOL!) 

There are so many bone-headed moves for which I will never forgive TIIC at TGL. I was significantly more attached to it than I was to RH, so the decimation of TGL angered me a lot more. At least RH went out with a bang, on a high note.

[Wendy]

Cool clip. Thanks! The fact this occurred on my 7th birthday just makes me feel very old, though. LOL!

[j swift]

I thought the Agnes Nixon gossip was fun.  One tends to think there's more than one side to that story.  But, I was just pondering that among the cast that were eventually hired by other soaps after RH was cancelled, I could not name anyone who wound up on AMC.  For example, Bernard Barrow went to Loving, Ilene Kristen to OLTL, and Ron Hale to GH.  Can you think of any examples of actors who went from RH to AMC?

EDIT, found one from Ryan's Bar Online - [Helen] Gallagher had recently completed an unhappy stint on All My Children, in the recurring role of Nurse Harris, [..]"One day on AMC, I was there from 8:20 in the morning until 11 at night," she recalls. "That's a long day, and unless you're having a good time, there's no point to it whatsoever. I can't do that unless I can have fun with it, and on AMC, I just couldn't do it. It wasn't so much a waste of talent as a waste of time - and that's awful!"

Edited May 23 by j swift

[DRW50]

Nancy Addison and Tichina Arnold.

Roscoe Born later went on AMC (similar to Ilene only joining OLTL years later - she did join Loving for a year or so post-RH).

Edited May 23 by DRW50

[Ryan Mason]

Oh wow! My 7th birthday was 6 days before yours! So no matter how old you feel, I'll always be six days older! 

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But that said, I didn't watch Ryan's Hope back then. I started when SoapNet started the reruns from the beginning again in 2003. Which that, in and of itself, being 21 years ago now makes me feel old as well!

Edited May 23 by Ryan Mason

[Wendy]

Gen X, represent!

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[vetsoapfan]

Yes, the bitterness over her alleged machinations to save Loving at the expense of RH was interesting, as were the comments about Loving being the worst show on daytime TV and void of acting talent, LOL. True, I thought RH was (overall) better written than Loving, and had many more accomplished actors, but I could understand why ABC would acquiesce to Agnes Nixon. She was, after all...AGNES NIXON, a proven money maker with a long and significant record of success. That being said, I thought RH got the raw end of the deal regarding the time-swapping. Between Loving and RH, Nixon's show was a baffling flop whereas RH had been doing at least moderately well and receiving a lot of critical acclaim and awards. RH deserved to be nurtured and given the best shot to stay on the air.

God only knows why, with Nixon and Marland involved, Loving was such a mess, but that's a discussion for another message thread.

Other posters have pointed out some of the former RH cast who later moved over to AMC.

I will say, that even though some of RH's plots were clunkers, if I compare them to today's four remaining soaps, I'd watch RH again over the pod versions of GH, Y&R, B&B and DAYS in a heartbeat. Even when it was at its worst (Delia and and the Gorilla, The Egyptian Tomb nonsense, the Kirkland Invasion, the annoying youth influx under Pat Falken Smith), there were always at least some moments of quality to be found.

Rewatching The Doctors and Ryan's Hope today, it reminds me how good we had it back then.

 

[DRW50]

For me the worst of the show is often what reminds me most of the soaps that drove me away in the '90s - Kimberley arriving out of nowhere and eating up the canvas, the endless mob hell brought in around the same time, and the repetition of wicked/insecure Delia scheming against the Coleridges (especially the 80-81 era where she was meant to contrast with good, noble Faith and Roger). I didn't mind some of the silly side plots as much. 

(I've never really seen most of the Kirkland era or the PFS era) 

Regarding RH vs Loving, that's one of those switches I knew about years before I knew most behind the scenes soaps moments of yore due to how often Rosie O'Donnell used to complain about it on her talk show. Rosie's mania could be exhausting at times, but it was nice to see such a genuine soap fan getting a platform. 

It does make you wonder how long RH would have lasted. I'd say it probably still wound have ended somewhere in the mid '90s to make room for something else.

[John]

Rennie was dropped because Agnes wanted Julia Barr as Brooke on AMC

[Chris 2]

I don’t think RH would have lasted much longer even without the timeslot switch. RH was about a family - as opposed to a locale - and those shows have a more limited lifespan when you exhaust the storylines of the original family. Once they start moving the storylines to the next generation, it becomes less interesting. Cousin relationships are less interesting than sibling relationships.

[vetsoapfan]

I agree that the show harped on Delia's scheming too much and it became redundant after a while, but at least she was an original, core character who was intertwined with most of the show's characters. Kim was an annoying newbie who was suddenly shoved center stage. I couldn't stand the actress, whose head always seemed to be bobbling around. There are characters whom you love to hate (Rachel Davis, Dorian Lord, etc.) and then there are characters whom you simply loathe and want dispatched from the show as of yesterday. For me, Kin was in that category.

I was so excited to hear that PFS was coming aboard the show. To me, she was one of the best writers DAYS ever had, and she made miracles happen by replacing Douglas Marland so successfully at GH, but her RH felt alien, cold, cynical and detached. I don't think she understood or cared about this soap and its characters much. Curiously, from the moment she took over TGL, I felt she clicked and just "got it." The character moments she gave to Bert and Hillary, Nola, Henry and Vanessa, Mike and Sara, and other Springfieldians were lovely. God only knows why her stint at RH was so awful. I ended up considering her the worst writer in the show's history.

Rosie has always grated on my nerves, TBH, but I did appreciate how she championed her favorite series.

Probably, short of divine intervention. But I think it would have lasted longer than it did, had the network not sentenced it to The Timeslot of Death.

Feeling nostalgic about the show, I watched a Locher Room reunion with several members of the cast (Ilene Kristen, Malcom Groome, Ash Adams among others). I tend to avoid Alan Locher because he comes across as so incompetent, clueless and unprepared, but to my delight, he barely interrupted the flow in this group chat. All the actors were talkative and interesting, and didn't need Alan's direction.

Ilene Kristen was hilarious with some of her errors.

The panel was discussing all the actors who had ever played Frank Ryan: Michael Hawkins, Andrew Robinson, Don Scardino (as a temporary stand-in), Geoffrey Pierson, and John Sanderson). Ilene piped in and said that she knew Scardino and he had never been on the show; she was quite sure. Finally, she realized that he may have played Frank during one her breaks away from the series, so that settled that.

Later, she "argued" (in a friendly way) about when RH was cancelled. Everyone else correctly said that it was 1989. Ilene, stressing that she was "pretty sure" of her facts, said the show ran into 1990.

Ash Adams, who played Johnno Ryan, quipped, "MOM! You're out of your mind!"

The respect and affection everyone seemed to have for each other, even after 35 years, was poignant.

[DRW50]

@vetsoapfan Thanks. I'll have to check that out. I did watch the interview with Helen Gallagher, which was probably a mistake on the show's part as Helen couldn't recall a great deal, but Malcolm was on with her and was a good bridge.

Was it PFS' idea to bring in Robin Mattson as Delia? 

[vetsoapfan]

I've read reports that said it was the network's idea, to attract GH viewers who had been fans of Mattson's Heather Webber.

Whoever made the decision, it was a mistake. Mattson was totally wrong for the role of Dee. She was basically playing a foreign, unfamiliar character, not Delia Reid Ryan. Randell Edwards was very good in the part, but in the end, only Ilene Kristen could be the REAL Delia.

I thought Mary Carney (Mary #2) was a good actress and may have succeeded in the role had ABC not pulled the plug on her so quickly. Subsequent replacements (Kathleen Tolan and Nicolette Goulet) were terrible choices, particularly the harsh and abrasive Tolan whose Mary felt like a harridan.

If Randall Edwards and Mary Carney had stayed in the roles, I would have accepted them as Delia and Mary, but I do believe if the original actors are good, the audience prefers them.