Ryan's Hope Discussion Thread

[Chris B]

Speaking of Ryan’s, I never understood why they never brought on the oldest daughter as a regular. I know at one point they brought her daughter on but I don’t think the mom ever came on. 
 

With all the recasts and a desire to expand the show, it seems that would’ve been a no brainer. They could’ve properly cast her and given her a husband and a couple of kids. 

[Chris 2]

Agreed. She visited a few times but that was it. Kathleen, I think her name was. Her last visit was right after Mary died. Siobhan was offscreen for the first three years and then she came home. But they never did that for Kathleen.

[NothinButAttitude]

Why do I feel like the cousins point is something that should be unpacked and assessed on its own? I am over here trying to rack my brain throughout the history of daytime to combat your statement but I am drawing blank @Chris 2.

I do agree with @DRW50 that Jack seems to be the only one that pops up as a success. 

But I think we have to put that on Labine/Mayer b/c it does seem that they didn't really flesh Barry and EJ out much. But they didn't have to be boring. Cousins should not be hard to write for as they can have an almost similar relationship with an aunt/uncle as their own child. Were Barry/EJ even in Maeve and Johnny's orbit much? I am getting the impression in the book that they were somewhat removed from the Ryans, which could've been an issue. 

 

[j swift]

I liked EJ and Roger, but in retrospect, pre-internet, it feels unfair to say that a character was ill received, because the only response would've come from the niche part of the audience that would write into the production.  Certainly, the ratings did not change drastically enough to blame one character.  And the soap press was so far behind the air dates, that their critiques could not have had much of an effect.

So, unless Claire Labine had amazing ESP, I wouldn't have expected her to know how EJ was enjoyed by those of us at home.

Edited April 24 by j swift

[gimmetoo]

I've seen Maureen's stint on YouTube.  Overnight EJ became the center of the show - romancing Roger, working alongside Rae, the soap-within-a-soap storyline.  For sure, RH needed new characters...but to have her so suddenly become the lead was jarring and did nothing to endear EJ (or Maureen) to viewers.  

[NothinButAttitude]

That makes sense. But per the book, there were no younger Ryan leads, so it made sense for EJ to be shoved down viewers' throats as she was the only other Ryan on the cast besides Maeve and Johnny. However, I have found that an issue could've been that all the younger Ryan women took on Mary's characteristics. Even Siobhan lost her spunk and became a Mary prototype. You can tell that Paul and Claire grieved the loss of Mary and never truly got over it. 

[Paul Raven]

Were the cousins established from the outset or just written in ?

I would hope the former as Labine/Meyer seemed to have a comprehensive backstory/bible. It's always smart to have some characters available for down the track.

I never found Richard Backus particularly appealing. He never got a long lasting role.

Maybe a different actor could have made Barry work better?

[DRW50]

Siobhan was also there at that time, although I agree EJ might have been their attempt at bringing in another Mary. The problem is so much surrounding the first Mary was lightning in a bottle. And Mary just had more interesting relationships. I remember some lesbian undertones with Rae and EJ (which likely were not intended), but otherwise you just had self-righteous, smug Roger, and a lot of humiliation of Delia.

I should say that I did think Ron Hale was a real talent, as shown in the early years of the show (and maybe the later years - I haven't exactly locked those down) and his thankless part on GH. Any criticism I have is not based on Ron's work.

I think Richard did a good job as Barry when he had the chance - he was extremely smarmy, but we also got some of the more tender sides of the character. He didn't stand out to me from that era of the cast as a weak link, although I guess viewers might have been put off, especially compared to most of the other men on the show at the time.

I don't remember any mentions of EJ and Barry, although someone might know more than I did as I haven't watched those in a long time.

[NothinButAttitude]

Paul Avila's kids said that the story bible that he and Claire wrote (that they lost a copy of) was very detailed and went back to the Ryan's ancestors in Ireland. So I am assuming that EJ and Barry might've always been part of the plan. 

 

[NothinButAttitude]

What were everyone's thoughts on Johnno, Lizzie, and Ben? 

I need to go and look some clips up on this trio. 

It has to be odd being in a pairing and not being liked by your female lead. Sorry, I am on the chapter where Ash Adams stated he and the actress that played Lizzie didn't get along too much. 

[j swift]

IMHO, Johnno is one of those great ideas which suffered from poor execution.

After the original triangles were played out, multiple recasts of core characters, and failed attempts to expand the stories to include other families, the casting of Johnno was a realignment with the past. 

However, the character flip-flopped between being a hero and an antagonist.  It often felt as if they tried to make him either like Frank or like Delia, when he should've just been a combination of the two.  The casting of Lizzie was not great, as the uncharismatic actress did little to inspire why that character would be sought after by so many men.  And then, rather than having Ben just be the third wheel in the triangle, they felt the need to explore his backstory, which then devolved into Nancy-Don and that whole set of characters.

So, an attempt to modernize and set a new era was undermined by meandering storytelling, poor casting, and a lack of scenes between Johnno and his family to re-establish their relationships with him as an adult.

Edited April 27 by j swift

[NothinButAttitude]

Oh wow. I haven't gotten to the part of the novel where they address Ben's background. I am right at when Claire has taken over (again) and introduced Ben to the canvas. They've addressed the stuff with him being Jill and Maggie's brother (and Bess' son) but they only talk about him being a hot-head artist. 

I do see where they allude to Johnno being like Delia/Frank where they bring up his whole affair with Concetta and that leads to Lizzie/Johnny battling for custody of Owen. 

And then Jill was incised at the time b/c Dakota was messing with Delia at the time. At times, I wonder if Claire knew if her heroines (i.e. Jill, Mary) were perceived as grating at times. But I guess different time and era. I'd imagine if the show lasted much longer, Jill would've annoyed more modern audiences by being the preachy heroine, who was a homewrecker herself. But I digress. 

I don't get why Claire didn't like Dakota either. I mean I do but I don't. Yes, he made the sainted Johnny Ryan look like a cheater, but wasn't Dakota conceived prior to Mary's kids?

[j swift]

I'm not sure if you meant Mary or Maeve's kids, but he was older than Ryan Fenilli, Mary's daughter, but younger than Frank, Maeve's oldest.  Because there was a big deal made within the story that he was younger than Jill.

Was Dakota created by a writer other than Claire?  That might explain her distaste for the character.  Any writer who wrote a backstory as extensive as the Labine's did for the Ryan's would be excused for not liking a retcon.

To me, Dakota's another character whose dive into moral depravity seems poorly motivated. He's this simple sailor, who suddenly wants to fix elections with the mob.  I guess docking a boat in Manhattan was expensive, but that was never brought up as part of his motives.

EDIT: NYT says currently it only costs $490 a month to dock a boat at the 79th Street Basin on the Upper West Side, which was the closest to Ryan's Bar.  But, you can't live aboard full time by law in NYC.

Edited April 28 by j swift

[NothinButAttitude]

I meant Maeve. Sorry. 

Dakota was created by Millie Taggart and Tom King. They expressed that he was created to assist in them putting the Ryan's back centerfold. The actor says that when Claire came back that's when he saw the shift in Dakota's character and he started to veer off until Claire cast him aside. And it isn't disclosed that he was younger than Frank, so now it makes sense. 

IDK but I am feeling critical while reading this book with all the actors, directors, and producers' commentary on the matter. While network interference is a major issue in the downfall, I am questioning some writer choices too. SN: I adore Claire Labine, but I do find a lot of her choices wacky. 

[j swift]

ya got me @NothinButAttitude, I've had a digital copy since October, I'll go read to tonight, and we can book club it out this week

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