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3 hours ago, Taoboi said:

I don't know if I would say together, but following the Dr. Phil storm out, he did do a follow up episode if I'm not mistaken to deal with his demons. Seem in a better place the last few years. 

@Cat So you never saw S5 YOU'RE WELCOME? That was prime Cordelia Chase...and regardless of the situation...very well done IMHO. Charisma post-baby body was perfection and gave new meaning after Season 4 to the phrase revenge body.

 

That said...I've been meaning to step in here when this dropped a week ago and a friend of mine who became a big fan of BUFFY and knew I was one dropped the tweets on me. As a ANGEL fan, I had heard about what happened during Season 4. It was nice to FINALLY have it confirmed. Wow. It was a case for me of you don't know what you got until it's gone and Charisma Carpenter was that for me. Loved her in the shows and how she is one of the few characters that got a complete arc. I loved her in VERONICA MARS even if it was a bit of typecasting. And my aforementioned friend knew me well enough to know I would want to know of any new things she was in in case I missed it (I'm binging the CW show PANDORA partly cuz she makes an appearance I heard). 

 

As a fan, yeah it hurts. But I guess for me I am much much older now than I was then. Buffy and Angel I was in high school and leaving for college. I have fun memories. But over the years, I definitely don't have Joss on a pedestal like I used to. He is too messy and problematic. So hearing confirmed what he did on Angel Season 4 which could have been a great season...kinda is...is disgusting.

 

Does not take away from my love of ANGEL. Or DOLLHOUSE. Or FIREFLY. Not sure if I could sit through BUFFY at the moment. But it's good I can seperate his work from the man. 

 

I loved Charisma's statement and why she did it. I love that so many of the cast have come out to support. And I hope nothing, but the best for all of them. Because it is a brave and the RIGHT thing to do.

 

And as for Joss? I feel something big is coming and his days are numbered.

 

Oh, I watched You're Welcome! It was the only episode in S5 that I did watch, and it was precisely because Charisma was returning -- hopefully back to the show, I thought at the time. She looked STUNNING. Her wavy hair and tan and curves and great wardrobe! Look, was Charisma Meryl Streep? No. But she was naturally funny with great chemistry with everyone and a good sarcastic line delivery. Her character went from Mean Girl to demon fighter. I could have done without her being a divine being -- the whole point about Cordelia was how grounded in reality she was, so all the heavenly stuff didn't chime right. That kind of neutered the character, but perhaps that was Joss's intention, since CC seemed to be his designated target.

 

As you say, we all knew -- or rather felt -- that her firing was grossly unfair, especially for the reasons stated. But at that time, the agency of the fans was small -- it was, like, you take what we give you and be grateful to be watching the golden age of television. It was also just kind of accepted in the 80s and 90s that if an actress got pregnant, that might be the borderline legal reason for firing her. The internet was in its infancy and so the ability to marshal criticism or outrage or ask direct questions of TPTB was limited.

 

LOL! I watched her on Veronica Mars too! We used to be friends...

 

I didn't have JW on a pedestal, though I did admire, at the time, his ability to turn a WB/CW teen show into something that meant much more than that, a show which had the power to move and touch its audience with some great characters. Angel S4 and Buffy S6/S7 was when I started thinking maybe he was burnt out. I never got into the Avengers movies. I sort of realised early on that JW was beloved mainly because of his snappy, talky, hyper-pop-culture-referencing dialogue and that's fine but it's not the end-all and be-all of greatness. 

 

Charisma's statement was perfect and honest and thoughtful and just how I imagine her to be as a person. You know who ponied up his love and support right away? J. August Richard (Gunn on Angel). I thought his Tweet was warm and meaningful. I do think David Boreanaz, for all his faults and transgressions, liked Charisma a lot and knew what was going on then and now, and he supported her then and now. 

 

I think something big is coming down the pipe regarding Joss too. It may be in the Justice League investigation regarding the re-shoots, and I bet locking Gal Gadot in a room and threatening her career might be one of those things.

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55 minutes ago, Cat said:

 

Oh, I watched You're Welcome! It was the only episode in S5 that I did watch, and it was precisely because Charisma was returning -- hopefully back to the show, I thought at the time. She looked STUNNING. Her wavy hair and tan and curves and great wardrobe! Look, was Charisma Meryl Streep? No. But she was naturally funny with great chemistry with everyone and a good sarcastic line delivery. Her character went from Mean Girl to demon fighter. I could have done without her being a divine being -- the whole point about Cordelia was how grounded in reality she was, so all the heavenly stuff didn't chime right. That kind of neutered the character, but perhaps that was Joss's intention, since CC seemed to be his designated target.

 

As you say, we all knew -- or rather felt -- that her firing was grossly unfair, especially for the reasons stated. But at that time, the agency of the fans was small -- it was, like, you take what we give you and be grateful to be watching the golden age of television. It was also just kind of accepted in the 80s and 90s that if an actress got pregnant, that might be the borderline legal reason for firing her. The internet was in its infancy and so the ability to marshal criticism or outrage or ask direct questions of TPTB was limited.

 

LOL! I watched her on Veronica Mars too! We used to be friends...

 

I didn't have JW on a pedestal, though I did admire, at the time, his ability to turn a WB/CW teen show into something that meant much more than that, a show which had the power to move and touch its audience with some great characters. Angel S4 and Buffy S6/S7 was when I started thinking maybe he was burnt out. I never got into the Avengers movies. I sort of realised early on that JW was beloved mainly because of his snappy, talky, hyper-pop-culture-referencing dialogue and that's fine but it's not the end-all and be-all of greatness. 

 

Charisma's statement was perfect and honest and thoughtful and just how I imagine her to be as a person. You know who ponied up his love and support right away? J. August Richard (Gunn on Angel). I thought his Tweet was warm and meaningful. I do think David Boreanaz, for all his faults and transgressions, liked Charisma a lot and knew what was going on then and now, and he supported her then and now. 

 

I think something big is coming down the pipe regarding Joss too. It may be in the Justice League investigation regarding the re-shoots, and I bet locking Gal Gadot in a room and threatening her career might be one of those things.

David Fury was not my favorite writer on that show. I would even say he was the weakest so I was worried about how it would be written. So I was happy to see that he did Cordelia Chase justice. She...FIT. Exactly for the reasons you said. Which is why she probably shouldn't have been in Season 5. lol. But there is not a frame of camera in that episode that looked at Charisma and was not stunning. She gave look after look after look. And like I said, that ending HIT. So it was definitely a case of writing, directing, and acting coming together to make something special. 

 

Yes with older eyes, I can see the burnt-out. Even when I was younger, I was thinking he's so involved with 3...cuz FIREFLY was in the mix...shows...shouldn't he get some rest? And that does show in Season 6/7 of BUFFY (though I liked season 6 better than season 7 though the coda/shoutout at the end of the first episode of Season 7 was great). And while I still love some good Buffyspeak and speak it well...times do change.

 

That is great to hear about J. I still do not know all of who has tweeted...I feel like just about everyone has in support except for...Alyson and/or Alexis?...but it is VERY clear that Charisma was loved on both of her sets. And yes, she and David have always seem to have a great professional relationship so good to see that that extends to their non-working life. 

 

If Joss did something to Gal...just thinking it makes me see red. Pun...unintended. 

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29 minutes ago, Faulkner said:

 

 

Thank you for this. While Buffy and Angel's stars largely declined to comment, this was a pretty solid article about what it must have been like behind the scenes on both shows.

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  • 3 weeks later...

 

Thomas Middleditch is also the guy who decided to give an extensive interview about the needs that made him pull his wife into a swinging lifestyle- said marriage ended not long after.

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