B&B: March 2012 Discussion Thread

[P.J.]

I must have imagined all those scenes of Steph, Steffi, and Taylor criticizing Hope's "hypocrisy". Not to mention Bill's continual assault on her priss-ish ways and Ridge's left-handed way of questioning whether or not she's abandoning her ideals.

In this Twitter/ET/TMZ driven world, I don't believe for a moment the details of Liam and Steffi's wouldn't have been splashed all over the cyberworld either. Who are those idiots? The only Bible-totin', techno-deprived residents of LA?

I could have almost understood the mother's boardering on hysterical vitrol had they caught H&L goin' at it in some back alley, coatroom, walking out of Liam's house or parking garage before any news of Liam's marriage ending had hit the press. But it's been weeks since they broke up, and Hope annouced to the world she hoped to be married to the dipshit weeks ago. It was a kiss. With a man she's declared publically her fiancee. I don't see how this conflicts with Hope's "message".

[Cheap21]

Stephanie had absolutely nothing to do with Hope parading around with Hope. She wasnt supporting them. She OWNS the restaurant and was there to support her step-son. Its not like she was there to celebrate in Hope's glory

All the Forrester women. Really? Hope isnt the ultimate Mary Sue on soaps today? The show has spent the last 2 years telling us how pure and innocent she is with the talk of virgin being shoved down our throats constantly

and who would have done that? Liam? Steffy? Hope? That gondola stuff was kept within the family and the show made it a point about all who found out that it be kept a secret among them. Ditto on the brain aneurysm lie.

[~bl~]

Stephanie just sitting at a table with Liam and Hope (I almost typed Hoe, but caught myself) even with marcus and dazyee there could piss off someone. Perhaps I just wanted to see Susan Flannery act...

[Cheap21]

Why? Stephanie hasnt been splashing her face all over the media, making several press conferences preaching a message, having personal contact with fans and making herself a role model and figure to be looked up to. There was absolutely no reason to get mad at or blast her. The woman was OTT as it was and going after Stephanie would have been an even bigger stretch. The little girl most likely doesnt even know who Stephanie is and her mother was focused on the one (Hope) that she idolized.

[~bl~]

I think I would have just liked to see Stephanie blast someone for a change that wasn't a Logan.

[Cheap21]

IA with this. When I first heard of this, I thought someone was going to take a picture of her and Liam in bed and leak it to the tabloids. As it stands, it was a lame set up to make her come across as a hypocrite to her fans by some kid taking a phone pic of them kissing in public. Its not that big of a deal considering Hope announced her wedding to Liam before he even had his marriage officially ended and her fans rallied behind her even though she technically was with a married man at that point. Last week she even said she was releasing a statemnt to her fans explaining her position for moving in with Liam. I wish the show was a bit more consistent

[P.J.]

I know....if Hope's gonna get "caught" in some compromising situation---make it an honest to God compromising situation. (From this day and age---not the 1900's Edwardian England.) A picture of Hope and Liam kissing, half-naked on his balcony, at 6 am would have fit the bill.

A public display of affection in a coffeehouse (not involving tongue or some half-mast appendage) doesn't really scream "hypocritical whore" to me.

[Cat]

Stephanie let Hope be thrown under the bus. She sat there trying to hide while Hope cried, basically. Stephanie usually vaunts herself as the Sage One to whom all the youngsters turn to for advice. Hope is not technically a relative but she is her favored son's stepchild and that should have been enough for the Grande Dame to stand up and say "Look here, let's keep this civilized."

Hope is getting her comeuppance after all her big press statements and boohooing, but while Forrester women like Taylor criticize Hope's morals, not so long ago, she was banging on Steffy's bedroom door in a bid to break it up between a barely-clothed Steffy and Bill -- a married man. We won't even get into Stephanie whose "fairy-tale" marriage was actually a sham -- she and Eric had an open marriage. And, yes, then there's Brooke. I would point out that most of the guys are big ole hos -- Ridge and Eric have never kept it in their pants and yet that has always been down to "boys will be boys" and "being passionate, creative men" who need scantily-clad beauties around them for "inspiration."

It is fascinating to watch all these themes of sexual availability vs virginity and Hope's hang-ups with sex, it really illustrates how young girls are still dealing with madonna-whore archetypes. Neither Steffy nor Hope are one or the other but are trapped in personas they have created for themselves. Steffy presents herself as the fun, vixenish, sexually liberated one but she gets her heart broken anyway. Meanwhile, Hope is suffocating under the responsability of having put her virginity out there and letting it define her entirely. I could make a point here about America's creepy obsession with young girls' virginity in general, but I won't because it is only a soap opera.

[Juliajms]

I don't think "America" has an obsession with female virginity. There is a small fragment of certain religious communities that do, but of all the countries on planet earth, I don't think The United States even rates in the top 50 when it comes to this issue. Considering that female circumcision and females being imprisoned for sex before marriage happens in several countries, I just don't see this as "our" issue. Brad's obsession is certainly not indicative of the population as a whole.

Now, using celebrities as role models or arbiters of morality...that may very well be a U.S. problem.

[Cat]

Well, when you put it in a context like that... sure, the US doesn't even rate! I consider female circumcision and females being imprisoned for sex before marriage outright cultural misogyny. It's about pure hatred, spite and control, IMO. Like those laws saying that women should be stoned to death for adultery but men are given a free pass (and by "adultery" I mean "rape").

I guess in the US I am thinking of low-level stuff -- like the fathers who give their daughters abstinence-promise rings and take them to purity balls. I saw it in a documentary once, so it is by no means some mega-popular thing. But it was kind of icky when the fathers made their daughters promise to remain "daddy's girl" and "whole."

And yes, definitely agree about making celebrities moral arbiters of taste/judgment/morality.

[JaneAusten]

There is a whole underlyng theme here that the show just sort of accidentally happened upon and has actually IMO enriched this story. And since the focus has moved away from Liam being horny and Steffys "ideal" marriage break, the entire story is much better. I know a lot of folks hate Hope here but the focus of the story now and the underlying theme is a heck of a lot more powerful and interesting now than it has been.and hope is getting her payback from something beyond Steffy and Bill again plotting against her.

[edgeofnik]

Actually, I thought Stephanie's reaction was appropriate. She's been warning against this and escalating it would've made it worse. Stephanie has two interests to protect: Forrester and Steffy. Hope's image now is going to hurt the company and Stephanie knows that, so defending her actions would have made matters worse. And, seeing trouble for Hope and Liam, furthers her goal with Steffy. This scene was the catalyst for push Hope's story much deeper and, honestly, I like it. The "Brooke scandal-of-the-year" torch has been passed.

[P.J.]

IA, it's way past time Brooke's scandals were put to rest---I just think it's repetitive to continue to write Hope as "tainted" while Steffi continues to skate off blame-free simply because her last name happens to be Forrester. Stephanie even had the gall to proclaim her the "victim" in all this. Had Brooke "engineered" a quick wedding to keep any other woman away from Ridge, and had the marriage end after her machinations were discovered, she'd be treated as the Whore of Babylon.

And the fact that it's 99 percent of the show doesn't help.

[DRW50]

The characterizations are just uneven. When people say they love Steffy, who knows she's a bad girl and loves it, I end up watching day, after day, after day, of a laundry list of characters defending her goodness and claiming she is the wronged woman. They seem to have no idea what to do with this character.

[Cheap21]

How is it uneven? You have Stephanie, Bill, Ridge and Taylor defending Steffy. On the otherside you got Katie, Rick, Brooke and Donna defending Hope and trashing Steffy on a regular basis. Both sides have their supporters.

Wanna talk about uneven, for so long we had to endure Hope as this pure innocent paragon of morality. That nonsense was incredibly over the top and the worst case of pushing a soap Mary Sue I have ever seen in my history of soap watching. They werent even trying to be subtle with any of it. I think the stuff right now with Hope is a bit more realistic bc they are finally allowing her flaws to be exposed and by doing so maknig her come across as a more rounded character instead of this one dimensional walking halo. She's a hypocrite, she's being called out and she's starting to crack around the unrealistic expectations and pressure she built around herself and they are using her history to reinforce it. IA with JaneAusten in that this story is becoming more bearable bc they are moving on to a different stage in it and dealing with som issues shich should have been addressed a long time ago