37 minutes ago, DRW50 said:

You have such a beautiful scene near the end of the episode with Karen and Edwina [...], two outsiders, very broken, trying to survive, and Karen can only try to take Edwina into her arms to share her pain.

I agree, @DRW50, that was a very tender scene.  And I also agree that one of OLTL's cores was its' outsiders and outcasts.  Characters who would've been on the peripheral on other soaps were often the ones driving story on OLTL. To me, that's what separated OLTL from the rest of daytime.  That, and the theatrical quality of its' dialogue.

Edited March 30Mar 30 by Khan

Thanks for the tag, @DRW50. When did Dorian get involved with WVLE, anyway?

7 hours ago, Khan said:

I agree, @DRW50, that was a very tender scene.  And I also agree that one of OLTL's cores was its' outsiders and outcasts.  Characters who would've been on the peripheral on other soaps were often the ones driving story on OLTL. To me, that's what separated OLTL from the rest of daytime.  That, and the theatrical quality of its' dialogue.

It's such a moving scene, especially when I see that it carried over to the beauty shot (maybe one of the strongest beauty shots I've seen - a great example of the power they could have). So many who write soaps in recent years often just want to write bitchery and "camp" between female characters. It's cheap and easy, a way to get fans talking and to get attention on social media. They could have gone that way with Karen, especially if they had stuck to the earlier shadings of the character but having her trying to look out for the other broken dolls, giving them the support Viki had given her in her lowest moments, is so much more impactful for me. A gorgeous moment that the world needs more of now.

Edited March 30Mar 30 by DRW50

7 hours ago, Khan said:

I agree, @DRW50, that was a very tender scene.  And I also agree that one of OLTL's cores was its' outsiders and outcasts.  Characters who would've been on the peripheral on other soaps were often the ones driving story on OLTL. To me, that's what separated OLTL from the rest of daytime.

I'll third this. Fortunately in these years and I'd argue in the '90s, they seemed to manage to thread the needle fairly well between the grandiosity of the Dallas-mandated Buchanans and the show's original streetwise core of outsiders and troubled people. Was it sometimes an awkward fit, sure, but in what I've seen of these early years (and a lot has fortunately become available in the last decade) they managed to have characters like Asa, Bo, Karen, Marco, Edwina, Jenny, Katrina, etc. coexist fairly successfully side by side. In part because the more ground-level or troubled characters would puncture and contrast the Buchanan dynasty (as it did again in the '90s IMO). That and the talent present in the core Buchanan clan is why I can't begrudge them.

Edited March 30Mar 30 by Vee

10 hours ago, DRW50 said:

I can't remember if this one had ever been up before, but just in case it hasn't been: 

This has some of the Paris location shoot, including a neat little sighting of a Pat Ashley Show clapperboard and some footage of Pat actually filming her show. (I didn't realize how long the Paris sojourn was as there are still moments there in September) 

A big location shoot and hoopla with Asa too for...a party being thrown for Samantha Vernon and Mimi King (sure, why not). I was trying to figure out if this is the "Asa raps!" episode but I don't think it is? Didn't fully check though.

I do wonder how viewers at the time felt about the sudden yee-hawization of their Llanview.

Fascinating they were doing all this location work in August, not even a sweeps period.

Some fun moments here with Dorian, Clint and Viki where Dorian asks Viki if she'd save her if she was drowning: "Dorian, I would think about it." 

It's nice to see this lighter Dorian, a reminder we are still early into Robin's run.

Oh, there's a really good scene with Katrina and "Mario" near the end of this episode. Nancy Snyder brought so much believability to a role that was basically an extended plot device.

Good scene in here of Karen blasting the hell out of "Mario" because he still has the horn for Tina and is just a trashy, sloppy mess in general (poor Edwina...). The layers of deception with Karen and Marco are fascinating (and they casually talk with Katrina even though IIRC they had already stolen her child by this point). It's a credit to Judith Light and Gerald Anthony that viewers were still on their side. 

@Vee @Franko @Paul Raven @slick jones @EricMontreal22 @FrenchFan @vetsoapfan @Khan @Soaplovers @SFK @dc11786 @chrisml @Marco Dane @Jagger1966 @MissPalmer @dragonflies @janea4old @TheyStartedOnSoaps @BetterForgotten @Kane @Soapsuds @Contessa Donatella @Maxim @All My Shadows 

 

WOW!!! Thank you very much!!! This is wonderful!!!! I remember that we could see Paris during August and September! It is lovely to see all these characters!!! OLTL started after this episode in Spain and Germany!!!

5 hours ago, DRW50 said:

They could have gone that way with Karen, especially if they had stuck to the earlier shadings of the character but having her trying to look out for the other broken dolls, giving them the support Viki had given her in her lowest moments

You know, if Judith Light had not left OLTL when she did, I think Karen would have eventually moved into Ina Hopkins' role as a boarding house owner who provided a sort of safe haven for all the troubled souls who passed through Llanview.  (Whether she and Larry would have reunited for good is another matter).

Edited March 30Mar 30 by Khan

17 hours ago, DRW50 said:

I can't remember if this one had ever been up before, but just in case it hasn't been: 

This has some of the Paris location shoot, including a neat little sighting of a Pat Ashley Show clapperboard and some footage of Pat actually filming her show. (I didn't realize how long the Paris sojourn was as there are still moments there in September) 

A big location shoot and hoopla with Asa too for...a party being thrown for Samantha Vernon and Mimi King (sure, why not). I was trying to figure out if this is the "Asa raps!" episode but I don't think it is? Didn't fully check though.

I do wonder how viewers at the time felt about the sudden yee-hawization of their Llanview.

Fascinating they were doing all this location work in August, not even a sweeps period.

Some fun moments here with Dorian, Clint and Viki where Dorian asks Viki if she'd save her if she was drowning: "Dorian, I would think about it." 

It's nice to see this lighter Dorian, a reminder we are still early into Robin's run.

Oh, there's a really good scene with Katrina and "Mario" near the end of this episode. Nancy Snyder brought so much believability to a role that was basically an extended plot device.

Good scene in here of Karen blasting the hell out of "Mario" because he still has the horn for Tina and is just a trashy, sloppy mess in general (poor Edwina...). The layers of deception with Karen and Marco are fascinating (and they casually talk with Katrina even though IIRC they had already stolen her child by this point). It's a credit to Judith Light and Gerald Anthony that viewers were still on their side. 

@Vee @Franko @Paul Raven @slick jones @EricMontreal22 @FrenchFan @vetsoapfan @Khan @Soaplovers @SFK @dc11786 @chrisml @Marco Dane @Jagger1966 @MissPalmer @dragonflies @janea4old @TheyStartedOnSoaps @BetterForgotten @Kane @Soapsuds @Contessa Donatella @Maxim @All My Shadows 

 

Fascinating. Thank you. ❤️

17 hours ago, DRW50 said:

I do wonder how viewers at the time felt about the sudden yee-hawization of their Llanview.

Speaking as one viewer who had been watching since 1968, the yee-haw invasion was too much, too fast, and really ended up altering the foundation and tone of the show over the next few years.

Of course, when the OLTL added science-fiction idiocy into the mix during the 1980s, the class and integrity disintegrated. I couldn't make it beyond 1983 as a regular viewer.

At least I had had 15 great years!

17 hours ago, DRW50 said:

Oh, there's a really good scene with Katrina and "Mario" near the end of this episode. Nancy Snyder brought so much believability to a role that was basically an extended plot device.

I agree. The role was not flashy or attention-getting like some of the others, but Snyder's quiet and poignant delivery always hit the mark.

17 hours ago, DRW50 said:

Good scene in here of Karen blasting the hell out of "Mario" because he still has the horn for Tina and is just a trashy, sloppy mess in general (poor Edwina...). The layers of deception with Karen and Marco are fascinating (and they casually talk with Katrina even though IIRC they had already stolen her child by this point). It's a credit to Judith Light and Gerald Anthony that viewers were still on their side. 

Light and Anthony were just so charismatic and mesmerizing, and had a likeability factor that shone through, regardless of what their characters were doing.

OLTL had a stellar cast back then.

 

 

16 hours ago, DRW50 said:

I do enjoy the Buchanans, but episodes like this remind me of the consequences of their devouring the show

 

18 hours ago, DRW50 said:

I do wonder how viewers at the time felt about the sudden yee-hawization of their Llanview.

 

21 minutes ago, vetsoapfan said:

Speaking as one viewer who had been watching since 1968, the yee-haw invasion was too much, too fast, and really ended up altering the foundation and tone of the show over the next few years

 

I started watching in 1969 and yeah, the Buchanans felt like an invasion to me, too.  It changed the tone of the show.

10 hours ago, Khan said:

You know, if Judith Light had not left OLTL when she did, I think Karen would have eventually moved into Ina Hopkins' role as a boarding house owner who provided a sort of safe haven for all the troubled souls who passed through Llanview.  (Whether she and Larry would have reunited for good is another matter).

I am curious - when Larry was brainwashed into proposing to Karen again, did he still love her but had just tried to move on?

I can't see them lasting if Karen had stayed.

I love the idea for Karen, and the show needed that, especially when you think of how many lost souls were around in the '80s who could have been brought into Llanview. The '80s was a lost decade, in many ways. 

Your idea is so much better than what they were going to do with Karen if Judith had returned for the finale (allegedly), even if some soap stenos at the time tried to drag Judith for not agreeing to it.

13 hours ago, DRW50 said:

Your idea is so much better than what they were going to do with Karen if Judith had returned for the finale (allegedly), even if some soap stenos at the time tried to drag Judith for not agreeing to it.

Karen returning to Llanview as Herb Callison's wife is just one of those "wacky" ideas that could come only from Ron Carlivati's brain, lol.

I believe that Karen would've returned to "the life" eventually.  Either Steve Piermont would've forced her back into it because they were struggling financially, or he would've abandoned her in Canada, leaving the uneducated Karen with no other alternative.

Some time ago, though, I proposed a "Same Time, Next Year" scenario, where we learn that Larry and Karen bumped into each other years before while Larry was away on business; and that the two have been meeting every year, on the same weekend, at the same hotel, with the understanding that that's all either could commit to, given their circumstances.

Edited March 31Mar 31 by Khan

On 3/27/2025 at 7:51 PM, DRW50 said:

 

I have to say, David A Gregory is not someone I'd expect to see do stage work...  (is that mean?)

2 minutes ago, EricMontreal22 said:

(is that mean?)

No, it's the truth, lol.

20 hours ago, DRW50 said:

Your idea is so much better than what they were going to do with Karen if Judith had returned for the finale (allegedly), even if some soap stenos at the time tried to drag Judith for not agreeing to it.

OK remind me--what were they gonna do?  Thanks for tagging me in this fascinating episode. 

You know, in the back of my head I always blame Sam Hall when he went solo for the Dallas-ification of OLTL but obviously stuff like this proves it was in full force while Gordon Russell was still writing with him...

4 minutes ago, Khan said:

No, it's the truth, lol.

❤️  To his credit, I have always gotten the sense that he does try to take acting seriously (and I haven't seen him do anything in years,) but...

11 minutes ago, EricMontreal22 said:

I have to say, David A Gregory is not someone I'd expect to see do stage work...  (is that mean?)

I think it would depend on what kind of work he is doing...but yes. Good for him though.

7 hours ago, Khan said:

Karen returning to Llanview as Herb Callison's wife is just one of those "wacky" ideas that could come only from Ron Carlivati's brain, lol.

I believe that Karen would've returned to "the life" eventually.  Either Steve Piermont would've forced her back into it because they were struggling financially, or he would've abandoned her in Canada, leaving the uneducated Karen with no other alternative.

Some time ago, though, I proposed a "Same Time, Next Year" scenario, where we learn that Larry and Karen bumped into each other years before while Larry was away on business; and that the two have been meeting every year, on the same weekend, at the same hotel, with the understanding that that's all either could commit to, given their circumstances.

That makes sense. I could also see her becoming a madam but trying to be a "good" madam.

The idea of a Same Time, Next Year scenario makes sense for Karen and Larry. I'd love to see that (and her reaction to him and Dan dating the same woman).