As The World Turns Discussion Thread

[All My Shadows]

Finishing up that full December 1972 episode. As always, I am so hungry for more 70s ATWT!!

 

The shoe was so male in this era - both Hughes brothers, both Stewart brothers, Tom, John, Chris, Grandpa, Judge Lowell. I’m not 100% on a cast list, but I feel like the men outnumbered the women.

 

I say it all the time, but they did Ellen WRONG. It’s just ridiculous that Pat Bruder was in her 30s and was playing mom to these two grown ass sons who were clearly written to be in their 30s. Ellen was stifled from so many good story possibilities, and it just sucks. I do wonder if the decision to keep the fact of her being Dan’s mother a secret for so long was meant to kinda make their relationship was believable?

Side note - I’ve never seen a Father Lowell scene before! Now just give me some Alma Miller.

 

Irna had a penchant for killing off main characters, and Paul and Liz are no exception, and I wonder what her point of view was in regards to keeping characters around and viable for the long-term. Did she view soap opera as something that could and should go on and on and on for decades, or did she feel that shows should have a natural end and that even popular characters were disposable?

[DRW50]

 

I agree this period seems very male-heavy. I guess it doesn't help that other than Susan (who was on her way out) and poor Ellen, we rarely see any women in major roles (and Ellen's role is very degrading in that the men around her are always trying to "handle" her). We don't see any of Kim as of yet, we have seen none of Jennifer here, Lisa...and Lisa seems like a real mess at this point. It seems like Kim was Irna's main POV female in this run, and maybe Carol? Irna also brought back Penny and her daughter Amy-Lin, although I'm not sure how prominent they were. 

 

(wait - was it Irna who brought Penny back?)

 

I'd never seen Judge Lowell either. 

 

I think Irna saw the characters as her creations and her creations alone, and that superseded all else. Killing them was, as she told GL fans upset over Kathy Roberts' death, simply a part of the cycle of life. 

Edited May 31, 2020 by DRW50

[Paul Raven]

No that was Winifred Wolfe I believe with Penny played by Pheobe Dorin.

When Amy came in, under Irna ,it was without Penny,

[DRW50]

 

Thanks. I always get that mixed up. I wish we could have seen the plans Irna had for Amy. She spent her last 5 years in daytime trying to add more Asian/Amerasian representation - something that the soaps never really bothered with.

[EricMontreal22]

Thanks for those early GL links--I'd seen a couple but I admit when it comes to 15 min GL I have particularly been tracking down Agnes Nixon's run, so hadn't seen a lot of these.

[Soapsuds]

The look on Lucinda face around the four minute mark is brilliant. Liz didn't have to have any written lines to show us what a brilliant actress she was.

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[John]

is there any of phoebe Dorian 's Penny on The youtube?

[John]

Peter Vack as Casey

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[DRW50]

 

No.

[P.J.]

It's been so long since I've watched an episode from that long ago---the scenes seem to stretch out forever! LOL. WTF? BabyEmily had the hots for Steve? And Iva lived off the Snyder Reservation? 

[DRW50]

 

I'd forgotten Iva ever lived outside of the farm, aside from the last few years when she had her own apartment. 

 

The scenes with Emily wanting Steve - I wonder if that story was ever meant to go further. 

 

Colleen McDermott was a decent actress (if a little hard), but she was probably too young-looking for what they wanted Emily to be. The James/Emily relationship, which was always gross anyway, is even grosser with her in the role. Marland really doubled down on the stuff with James and young women - I don't remember that being such a thing before him.

[DramatistDreamer]

 

John had quite the yen for younger women before and after his marriage to Lucinda.

 

Smith would have been way more convincing as a "temptress" to Steve had he still been on the canvas when she showed up.  Remember Emily supposedly had a "thing" with Hensley Taggart, the creepy guy who tried to assault Barbara and was shot and killed by James in Duncan's castle? Emily had some vague dalliance with him when she spent time in Europe/Scotland.  Emily was sort of written as somewhat of a Lolita figure when McDermott was in the role. What didn't actually change even when Smith took over the role was that Emily was still written as a young women who never had any relationship with her own father and transferred those misplaced emotions into relationships with older men like James Stenbeck. Somewhere along the line, Marland must've felt that he was wasting Smith on May/December romances and decided to go younger, so much so that Emily went very young with a barely legal Paul.

[DRW50]

 

John did, I agree - I wasn't sure if James ever did. I guess he was noticeably older than Dee and Barbara but with Marland it became more predatory and I can't even remember if Emily was of age when their relationship started.

 

I'd forgotten Emily was supposed to have been with Hensley Taggart (I can still hear Duncan saying his name)...

 

Marland seemed to reposition Emily into more of an anti-heroine, especially by the time of her relationship with Brock.

 

I think after Brock died they tried putting her back with Paul again but I don't think that was a good idea (I guess both actors left not too long after...probably not because of the relationship, just to try new things). The relationship worked more when Emily was Paul's obsession, and she made that one bad, dumb mistake of a night with him.

Edited May 31, 2020 by DRW50

[DramatistDreamer]

I liked that mid 80s Barbara and late 80s, early 90s Emily were written as owning their sexuality, regardless of whether others approved or not. Barbara was pretty apologetic over her affair with Tonio but Emily seemed unapologetic despite those times when she was slut-shamed. 

Whether you agreed with their actions or not, at least their characters had agency, which is more than I can say for 90% of the women characters in daytime soaps today.

 

Case and point: that video that was posted of Greta calling Emily a whore and slapping her outside of the court room.  Notice how quickly Emily reacted and kept it moving, lol. Emily gave no effs what Greta thought of her.

[Soapsuds]

Been watching a lot of 86 and 87 season of ATWT. I had forgotten how good it was at that time. The scenes were much longer and at least one story affected everyone on the canvas. The Sabrina story had everyone involved. Even Lucinda who exposed Sabrina existence on a tv station she owned.

 

No wonder the show was in the top 3 a lot and even #2 a few times.

Edited May 31, 2020 by Soapsuds