Y&R/ Maria Bell losing their way?

[MichaelGL]

I enjoyed the show quite a bit the last few weeks, but I gotta admit this week has been boring. I have to also add that I don't like the direction their going to take Adam in, actually there are quite a few spoilers that have me concerned.

[Vee]

What a shock, this got off track like all the others. If people really needed a self-pity party thread about why everyone else doesn't agree with you, or you, or you about Y&R or DAYS or OLTL and people's continued interest, then why not start a single one entitled "They Just Don't Understand" or maybe "Emo: The Thread," and stay there? Then you can spend all your time ostensibly holding discussions about "the future of daytime in the hands of true artists" as opposed to the rest of us who are apparently slackjawed zombie yokels. I've gotten so tired of these little "think tank" threads which are thinly veiled bitch stables for people who want to demean their undeclared board opponents under a treacly veneer of pompous meta-TV talk, and how you understand things and they don't.

I may not watch Y&R, I may not get or be interested in the Y&R praise, but I don't begrudge people their feelings, I don't doubt their sincerity, and I don't spend all my time here bitching about people who like something I don't. Wow, SON has cliques and popular trends; how shocking, it's almost as if I hadn't been for years and didn't know this long ago. I don't start threads about my personal dissatisfaction with other people's opinions about a show, and I don't make a thread into a tract about it. I leave that to Sylph, and now, other people. Me, I bitch at someone and move on.

I'm with classicmoment. You may not realize how you kids sound, but for my money, these passive generalizations about the shows you do or don't like and the people who watch 'that mediocrity' are actually the height of effete passive-aggression against each other, and I've no time or patience for it. If I'm going to spit on someone or mock their tastes, I'll do it openly. This is not cute and it's not elegant and it's beneath all the supposed high-minded ideals everyone claims to hold for daytime's future. It's just a bunch of bitchy little girls sniping at each other behind their open locker doors. Get over it. How many more times can we do this kabuki routine?

[MTSRocks]

Amusing.

I'm pretty much just going to co-sign what Vee has been saying. I think people are overhyping, this supposed Y&R-hype themselves. All I see are fans enjoying what's good about the show, and not wasting time or energy focusing on the Chipmunk (I guess this will be the new gag word joining the ranks of - Reliquary, Clear Springs, and Extreme Catwalk). Sure, its cool and fun to bitch time to time, but to this extent - what's the point? The weather outside is lovely, so if you don't enjoy the show then don't watch. Screw loyalty, it's a two-way street you know.

[Toups]

I'm so sick of the self pity too. LOL

[Adam]

Isn't it frustrating as hell? The show is back in fine form in Monday's episode. I am not worried at all.

[Paul Raven]

I agree the past few weeks havwe been a letdown,but that's the nature of soaps.What one viewer might regard as FF material,someone else is in love with.

However,we are asked to contribute our opinions,so here goes.

MAB had to undo a lot of what LML and Jack Smith before had done.

For the most part I think she is on course.

Y&R's biggest asset-an abundance of long running characters-can also be it's biggest liability,as it becomes harder to come up with something new for these characters.

Rather than write them out,or back burner them,(as many shows do)to allow for fresh characters to take over,she has wisely looked to the past to keep these characters front burner.

She used the Marge story to undo the Jill/Kay story and bring resolution as to what happened to Marge as well as introduce Murphy.

She re-united Ashley and Victor rather than introduce new love interests for them

She used the Clint kidnapping to bring back Kevin's instability.

The Phyllis/Sharon/Nick story was a progression as to what happened in the past

Gloria going to jail tied into the face cream story that many have been clamoring for resolution.

Paul/Nikki drew on their long standing relationship.

Also,she has brought back past characters-Billy,Olivia,Ashley.Doris,Mac

The only new characters have been Murphy and Eden-both tied into established characters.Mary Jane is somehow tied into the past.

Where she has failed,in my opinion:

The Katherine story has been front and center and for the most part has had every angle explored,but other stories have been neglected.

The Karen/Neil/Tyra plot has been a disaster.The potential was there but the whole thing was sidelined.Once or twice a week compared to the attention given to Sharon/Nick/Phyllis.No interaction b/w these characters and the rest of the show.

Paul/Nikki.Here was a story about 2 life long friends and long running characters who take the step into a sexual relationship and commitment.Nothing has been done with this.Could they have regrets?Could one of them want to back out?How did their children/exes react?Nothing was done with this.Paul disappeared and Nikki became support to Katherine.A wasted opportunity.

Cane/Lily.I'm sorry,but both actors are lifeless and the writing has been bad.Cane's obsession with custody and Lily's support was senseless and then resolved in a couple of scenes.Will Cane ever visit Delia after this?To marry them off is even worse.Where is the conflict?

The neglect of Colleen and Vicroria/JT.Whatever your opinion of the actors,the characters are important.I don't understand why they have been back burner for months.I can understand MAB not being sure what to do with them,but they could have been used in a supporting capacity.

Why would Victor be at all worried about Colleen on the board?She is only one vote.

Victoria's jealous reaction to JT/Colleen last week was cringeworthy.Enough of the insecure wife who is threatened by any woman who comes into her husband's life.It was completely unmotivated,especially in light of the fact that we have no idea of the state of their marriage.

Too many plots based around crime.So many characters have been in jail the past few months,yet all get to walk scott free.

I could go on.

Overall,I love the show and watch every episode not only to enjoy what is happening,but also to step back and ponder the behind the scenes decisions.

I think,like so many of us who are interested in the genre,analyse and critize beyond what the casual viewer does.

[BadZoe]

Paul Raven, you hit the nail on the head.

I find the main problem with this show is a lack of balance and stories that drag on so well past their sell by date that they really start to stink. Having just seen Monday's show, I think that it was 4 lackluster shows instead of 5. I really enjoyed that episode and the best part was no chipmunk.

[Sylph]

But, Vee, (and this is going to be interpreted as sarcastic, condescending, frustrated and pedagogic) why don't you just ignore it, why don't you leave (it) if you can't ignore it? Why do you feel this unstoppable need to blast at these "trends" and "cliques" and me and my threads and my high-and-mighty attitude and whatever? Why has your hatred & frustration reached such proportions? If you respect these other people, why don't you let them enjoy this message board and spare them "our" fights?

Because there will be a whole lot other "think tank" threads, all coming to theatres near you, showcasing how I, and many others are, actually either Vincent Lechowick or some frustrated, unemployed writer... And where I will be begrudging people & their feelings, doubt their sincerity and spend all my time here bitching about people who like something I don't. But I'm sure you'll come and say "I am sick of how people don't want to offend this martinet Sylph" just like I'm sure you will reply to this in a totally inimical, hostile way with tons of sarcasm and whatnot... That's OK. I guess. And no, you don't bitch and move on — if that were the case you would "bitch" about Sylph once or twice, say what you had to say, and leave it. Instead Sylph is the only thing you talk about. That's OK.

[rangethatrover]

You know what, this a f-cking joke. Self pity? Personal attacks?

Right.

The people with the personal agendas are the ones complaining about this thread.

If you watch and enjoy the show, go rave about it in the Y&R thread. You saw what this thread was about in the opening post.

A bunch of people who don't like Y&R in its current state (how dare we) are now being vilified because once again, you people cannot take any criticism of this heralded show.

The hypocrisy here kills me.

And Vee, you becoming the patron saint here and the arbiter of "message board" ethics and class is truly hilarious. You are one of the nastiest, condescending, and yes, occasionally hilarious posters on this board.

Whatever. Y&R negativity is not allowed here. Period. You cannot speak ill of the brilliance. Got it. if we do, we will be accused of personal attacks and locker room sniping (ever read YOUR posts, Vee dear?)

So we will make sure to only bitch about OLTL's rollercoaster of quality and GH being awful, because that is the POPULAR opinion, Y&R criticism is not, so we won't even go there. Sure.

[Y&RWorldTurner]

I don't think anyone in this thread is being attacked based on their opinion of the show. These threads, a lot of different threads it seems, happen to spawn off-topic into World War III - certain posters don't mix well at all.

If anyone has an opinion of any show, they're free to state it in any thread, no one is stopping them. But I guess the argument on the other side is, if a show is making you unhappy, then don't waste your time watching it. Regardless, I don't think anyone in this thread was told that their opinions shouldn't be posted simply because the "majority" will disagree.

[rangethatrover]

Alvin, you are always fair and I appreciate it.

There is something up here though where criticism of Y&R is concerned- Everybody bitches about GH but no one ever pulls the, if it makes you so miserable, why don't you stop watching. EVER. Because the popular opinion is that it sucks. So its allowed.

And there is obviously friction here between Sylph and some others. I love Sylph's posts, sue me. How can you not agree that this genre needs rescuing? I don't find Sylph offensive in the least. Or a rebellious emo. Whatever.

[sheilaforever]

ITA.

The over-all quality of the show is still great. I would agree that I did enjoy it slightly less in recent days but mostly because the stories that were my favorites in recent months are wrapping up. Yet; I find it ironic that some who were pissy in the past months due to the backburnering of certain characters still bash on the show even though one backburner family (Baldwins) moved to the front with the Kevin story. The acting of everyone involved it top-notch but a story with Kevin and Michael which is ok with me (even though that Chipmunk voice better have a real reason to bring some sense to this story!?) but they don't come close to the last Kay/Jill-story which thankfully seems not to cool off anytime soon.

Yet, I kinda miss Paul, Nikki (gasp) and Victor (double-gasp) but the latter should get more frontburner material now that Ashley is starring the Newman Ranch version of Disney's "Haunted Manor" which I suppose could get a campy masterpiece in the making. And the Mary Jane story is providing some suspense as well as Adam. That's why I can only concur that the show is still moving along nicely, IMO...

[MarkH]

Trying to stay in lurker mode here, but I simply want to agree that I love Sylph's posts. Apparently it is not perceived as such, and I don't know what to do about that except try to be a little more quiet.

I think "pro" and "con" voices for any show or any show element can and should happily co-exist. Open minds might actually learn something from one another.

The truth will be in the ratings trend. If the ratings start to consistently trend downward, as they did a little more than a year ago, then we'll know the show may again be missing the mark.

ETA: There do seem to be some soap viewers who wish their show were more like Masterpiece Theater. I think that there are different evaluation standards...so two people can see the EXACT SAME THING, but the lens will still be different because of their expections. I'm always reminding myself that the goal is to sell soap to housewives in Peoria. That is an important lens through which I observe everything.

[Cat]

Yes, it was very unfair of me, and I didn't mean to tar everybody with the same brush. I know that most were not trying to whip up debate for the sake of doing so. They were just expressing their own individual opinion for better or for worse.

As I said in the rest of my original post, this has been a real lesson for me about shutting up and accepting that not everyone feels the same way I do.

We need to take it all a little less seriously. Personal animosity unrelated to whether you like Y&R or not starts overriding threads. It poisons the atmosphere and makes people feel persecuted for their opinions. I don't want to feel like I can't post my thoughts here and I'm pretty sure rangethatrover, say, doesn't want that either.

[Khan]

I concur, especially about needing to take this stuff less seriously. Myself, included.

I wish to apologize, too, if I have over-generalized other post-ers on this board, or have in any way contributed to the negative vibes and hurt feelings. And Sylph...? If it's any consolation at all, I'm sorry I accused you of being Vincent Lechowick. Really.