Y&R/ Maria Bell losing their way?

[Sylph]

.

[MarkH]

??

[Sylph]

Never mind. It wasn't about you.

[dm.]

To put my two cents in.... not that this is even a little bit surprising.... the show is fine. Now most of the haters may perceive me as a dumb fan who doesn't know quality or something like that, but I really don't care. Everything that I am looking for in a soap is currently on Y&R and has been for months now.

Just because your own soap is lousy doesn't mean that now all soaps need to be just as bad. Y&R is not perfect, but good enough to keep me satisfied. I seriously couldn't handle constantly whining over any of the ABC soaps.

[rangethatrover]

Yes, yes, we are back to the Sylph is so above all the hausfraus on this messageboard bullsh-t. So far everyone I know on here are men, mostly gay. Hausfraus? My mommy went back to work in 1984, oh and it did kill her to miss AMC at the height of Greg and Jenny. But life is full of sacrifices.

Can we just set up a seperate thread where Vee can "stay on top of" the posters that she/he despises.

[Sylph]

Precisely. Another stunt, light-the-fire move, to call these people haters. Perhaps I am wrong, but I never saw e.g. rangethatrover say "I hate Y&R!" What I saw was a pretty well-rounded opinion on what he doesn't like and why. In several threads. Between dislike and hate there is a huge difference.

About that bolded part... After these 5 or 6 pages or whatever... I have to say that I just don't know why opposite views can't co-exist. Someone likes it, someone does not. If you like it, stop convincing people it's great. If you don't like it, the same goes for you. But yes, do state your opinion. No one is going to hang you or anything.

[dm.]

I did say "to put my two cents in..." Maybe I should have also entered "IMO?"

ITA.

[MarkH]

Well, I wondered if that is part of what is going on.

I just identified a whole bunch of negative statements from you -- from many of the regulars in the Y&R thread who have identified themselves as bona fide Y&R fans. I didn't do everyone...just a sampling.

But, yes, there was a MIX of positive and negative. And, if I'm truthful, positive was probably in excess of negative...even during a sh!tty week dominated by a chipmunk .

Like you, though, I wondered "why is this a problem?" You seem to suggest it is the social comparison, misery-loves-company thesis. "I have the critical skills to see my soap sucks; you don't see that your soap sucks; ergo, you must lack critical skills". But the problem is -- if you actually READ the Y&R thread -- it is not gushing. People highlight the good and the bad.

I've also wondered about being a fan of a show where one CAN'T find anything worthy of praise. If I compare that to a human relationship -- that's a sado-masochistic dance, not a relationship. If you can't identify and express the things you love, it makes the things you hate unbearable.

I could understand if the Y&R was an unrelenting string of positivity--an almost cultish glee--no admissions of error or imperfection (kind of like the last Bush administration). But that is not what the Y&R thread has...not on any objective reading, IMO

[rangethatrover]

Dmarex- No one thinks anyone who enjoys Y&R is a "simpleminded" fan. Most people, from soap press to fans are enjoying Y&R. It is probably the ony critically acclaimed soap currently airing.

MarkH- "Raving" was not the best word, and I am not into dissecting every word I use.

The fact is- and I am done here after this- Y&R fans cannot handle criticism of their show. If you don't agree with me, that is fine. I have nothing left to say about Y&R. And as god as my witness, I am not saying another word about Y&R at this board, past, present, future, good, bad. Done. Like I said before, it is like talking to a wall. No room for debate. It all comes down to personal attacks. I have to go find a cure for swine flu now.

[MarkH]

Who called RTR a hater? That's what I'm struggling with. Who said that? And who said he wasn't allowed to be a hater, if he is?

Where is the controversy coming from? Has anyone said RTR's opinions are not welcomed? Can you link me to that post?

Again, I'm very confused. dmarex expressed an opinion, saying he likes his show. Full stop. Good. As my earlier quote showed, even dmarex has points of criticism with regard to even the last week's shows.

Why is dmarex's expression of the positive opinion a negation of the negative opinions of others, or interpreted as "stop conving people its' great".

Where did dmarex engage in such an act of persuasion? Can you please link me to that post?

The gist I'm getting from all of this is that there should be a "predominantly critical thread" and "predominantly positive thread", and the MERE EXPRESSION of opposite opinions constitutes some kind of negation or denial of opinion?

If that gist is right, I'm sputtering. Because that is not what a discussion board is about.

Again, concrete links to concrete sentences to back up these generalities would be deeply appreciated.

[Sylph]

My point was not a reply to dmarex. Dmarex's post was just taken as a starting point. And I generalised it, it wasn't contra dmarex or anything like that.

And have you seen all the "Y&R haters" labels?

[MarkH]

It is a shame RTR won't read this, because my question won't get answered.

I'd like to find a SINGLE POST...just one...ANYWHERE...FROM ANY TIME...EVER, where "Y&R fans cannot handle criticism of their show".

I personally doubt such evidence exists. Which means we're dealing with some kind of perception problem.

But, let me flip it around and assume RTR is correct.

That would imply that Y&R fans are a fiercely loyal and positive group, and their affections for their show are clearly stated. Where is that a bad thing? I'm not seeing the problem.

That said, I do not believe RTR is correct. As my post above clearly shows, the most positive Y&R fans are frequently expressing negative sentiments. It's just that they're not WHOLISTICALLY negative...they are focused on strengths and weaknesses.

That -- the way I was taught -- is the essence of good criticism.

[Vee]

Oh, my. For the love of all that is good and holy, please find something to stabilize your moods and even you out so we don't have to deal with your whiplash mental state week after week. If it's not one grand pronouncement from on high at the summit, it's another. rangethatrover has decided Y&R is boring! rangethatrover can't watch OLTL! Don't get in his way! Why are you treading on him?!

RTR, your passion for listening to your own voice is inspired. But the fact is that if you look back at your unbelievably colorful and mildly worrisome posting history, you will find that no one has ever stopped you from saying anything you want to about anything that flits across the jagged archipelago of your mental plain. No one is stopping you. No one is censoring you. You have nothing to rebel against. So frankly, your endless posturing and yelling and proud flounces out of the room don't make much sense. What are you upset about? What are you angry about? What opinion or expressed viewpoint has been denied you? Who has kept your light behind a bushel or in a box? Everyday it's something new and crazy and defiant, with trembling jaw and shaking finger pointed forward like a 1950s melodrama. I can't help but listen to your latest gasbaggery, because you're always there!

You don't care for Y&R - okay. You've told us that at least thirty times in one month. Your moral outrage at censorship falls flat when you have never even censored yourself, let alone allowed someone to do it for you, and nobody has stoned you or assaulted you for your point of view on any show. Nobody has attacked you about Y&R in here; on the contrary, since the start of the thread, it's been Y&R fans attacked for "not listening" to your complaints or not engaging you in exactly this kind of strenuous argument. Apparently, agreeing to disagree is not enough for you. So what, exactly, has been denied you? Who is preventing you from speaking your mind, about anything? How are "the cool kids" keeping you down? Please, I want to know.

If you're going to play rebellious teen, I always say it's best to have a legitimate cause. You don't; you're apparently just angry that people don't pay enough attention to you, or that discussion goes on regardless of how you feel. But that's what happens on a message board. Live with it. God knows I do. I may be a lot of terrible words, but if I have a beef about something I tend to be able to articulate it. I think it's the least you could do.

Now you're getting it. Except there aren't any concrete links. You're arguing with someone who thinks you're a sap and just wants to bat people around.

P.S. - If this nonsense about PMs is directed at me, I want to say, by all means, produce these Private Messages and post them. I've never PMed Sylph in my life, or harassed anyone over PM, and the staff can prove that.

[Sylph]

No one is saying you PMed me!

[Vee]

And I rarely ever PM anyone else. I PM once in a blue moon, maybe eight messages in three years, and there's never been anything remotely scandalous about it, so please, if this is supposed to be your latest half-ass attempt at 'enigmatic Mata Hari by way of a studio apartment,' and if you're insinuating something about me, then I'm afraid you're on the wrong track.