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Faulkner

Racism and racial representation on soaps

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@Fevuh It’s incorrect to say VR is the only one who spoke out. She’s the most vocal, but others have tried and been punished. Kristoff St John was suspended for 3 months in 2010 for speaking out and confirming her claims. I recall the same happening to Bryton. Maria Area Bell was also going to bring her back, but only if she wouldn’t speak on her issues with racial injustice. Instead of going with it, she revealed it and the return didn’t happen. 
 

Also, VR made a good point in an old podcast I just listened to. Let’s look at Tonya Lee Williams: She was also a big star for Y&R with tenure. At one point the writers just gave up on her. She begged in the soap press for story for years. When she guest starred on B&B she expressed hope it would be another chance for her. Even though she never said anything negatively she was still discarded like a piece of garbage. She didn’t even qualify for a final storyline, she just stopped appearing. So you can’t even argue that VR’s outspokenness is why she isn’t back. The black actors STILL on the show who are keeping their mouth shut are still having the same problems. 
 

Hell, Loren Lott knew nothing of this and she had similar issues! They couldn’t do her makeup, they couldn’t light her, she had to provide and do her hair haircare and she was never given a love interest, the ONLY actress in her age range who was never given a love interest. Change needs to happen because these issues are real. 

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I remember this entire damn forum going through the stages of grief on the Loren Lott mess and that was not that long ago. Another waste. Just goes to show how systemic the issue is.

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7 minutes ago, Vee said:

I remember this entire damn forum going through the stages of grief on the Loren Lott mess and that was not that long ago. Another waste. Just goes to show how systemic the issue is.

 

Another in a long line of underutilized black talent who have gone onto primetime. And her case has to be one of the worse because they didn't even TRY.

 

SHE tried, she talks about trying to generate chemistry with the actor who plays Fen but they never wrote it because they didn't care. The show simply needed an extra black person and Devon's sister was the best option. Not once did they care. It was 2018 and they couldn't be bothered to write for a beautiful (she's legitimately one of the most stunning women ever on daytime), talented actress.

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Notice, too, they don't just bring Hillary back on Y&R. I know she died onscreen but come on. So did Jesse Hubbard and Mitch Laurence (twice). Keeping Mishael Morgan as the less-popular doppelgänger is, to me, at least partly strategic if not also possibly thoughtless. Whether it was by design or not, no twin will have the same fire and built-in fanbase. (And when Loving did it, Darnell Williams was swiftly re-paired with Debbi Morgan)

Edited by Vee

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10 hours ago, Vee said:

Notice, too, they don't just bring Hillary back on Y&R. I know she died onscreen but come on. So did Jesse Hubbard and Mitch Laurence (twice). Keeping Mishael Morgan as the less-popular doppelgänger is, to me, at least partly strategic if not also possibly thoughtless. Whether it was by design or not, no twin will have the same fire and built-in fanbase. (And when Loving did it, Darnell Williams was swiftly re-paired with Debbi Morgan)

Yeah. They set her up to fail. They could appear as if they were throwing her fans a bone by bringing MM back, but their ultimate intention is for her to slowly fade into the background and pretend like they tried to make it work before getting rid of her when they *think* no one’s looking.

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1 hour ago, Faulkner said:

Yeah. They set her up to fail. They could appear as if they were throwing her fans a bone by bringing MM back, but their ultimate intention is for her to slowly fade into the background and pretend like they tried to make it work before getting rid of her when they *think* no one’s looking.

 

Totally agree. I loved Hilary but Amanda is a dud and thats mainly because they have half-assed their way through the character. I saw it happening the second she came to town with Hilary's exact face and barely anyone had a reaction. 

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On 6/11/2020 at 1:03 PM, Fevuh said:

I was just such a fan of hers and over the years her griping has started to bother me.  I don't remember KSJ or Shemar Moore or many black actors/actresses complaining about how they were treated on Y&R.  Something just comes across as a trouble maker.  Crystal Khalil (SP wrong I'm sure).  Mishael Morgan.  Whoever played Olivia.  And linking your former working relationship to Black Lives Matter is just weird to me when she had such success.  She was invited back for the KSJ memorial, and she's worked since Y&R.  Why is she so against Y&R

 

Someone will say this is white privilege, and I am white, but a gay male.  But I feel like VR could be the EP, Head Writer, Director, and own the show and she still wouldn't be happy.  

THIS. 

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I really wish someone would interview Stephanie E. Williams. I'd really like to hear what she had to say. I know someone cited an interview she did several years ago but I don't think anyone has spoken to her recently and even before the pandemic and the current BLM protests, CBS was in the midst of a massive reckoning in terms of its toxic corporate culture.

4 hours ago, Faulkner said:

Yeah. They set her up to fail. They could appear as if they were throwing her fans a bone by bringing MM back, but their ultimate intention is for her to slowly fade into the background and pretend like they tried to make it work before getting rid of her when they *think* no one’s looking.

 

That was the sense that I got. How do you bring back an actress but completely disconnect her character from every single element that made the character pop?  I realize that Hilary was lightning rod but she wasn't boring.  From the episodes that I've seen (I admit they were not that many), Amanda is boring.

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4 hours ago, Faulkner said:

Yeah. They set her up to fail. They could appear as if they were throwing her fans a bone by bringing MM back, but their ultimate intention is for her to slowly fade into the background and pretend like they tried to make it work before getting rid of her when they *think* no one’s looking.

Could not agree more.

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https://www.cheatsheet.com/entertainment/general-hospital-former-star-vinessa-antoine-gets-candid-about-shows-lack-of-diversity.html/

 

The actress gets candid on the soap opera’s diversity

Diggstown is the first time that a black woman has headlined a Canadian drama series. On the lack of diversity on General Hospital and the genre as a whole, the actress was candid in letting her thoughts be known.

 

She explained, “Personally, from my experience and seeing how things are done, I think that there is one particular soap, The Young and the Restless, that based on their track record, has been able to put those storylines in the forefront. The era in the 1990s with the late great Kristoff St. John (Neil) and Victoria Rowell (Dru). That was a very beautiful and interesting time. I haven’t’ seen it repeat itself. I do feel that if there’s one soap that could do it [again], it would be Y&R.”

 

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2 hours ago, GLATWT88 said:

https://www.cheatsheet.com/entertainment/general-hospital-former-star-vinessa-antoine-gets-candid-about-shows-lack-of-diversity.html/

 

The actress gets candid on the soap opera’s diversity

Diggstown is the first time that a black woman has headlined a Canadian drama series. On the lack of diversity on General Hospital and the genre as a whole, the actress was candid in letting her thoughts be known.

 

She explained, “Personally, from my experience and seeing how things are done, I think that there is one particular soap, The Young and the Restless, that based on their track record, has been able to put those storylines in the forefront. The era in the 1990s with the late great Kristoff St. John (Neil) and Victoria Rowell (Dru). That was a very beautiful and interesting time. I haven’t’ seen it repeat itself. I do feel that if there’s one soap that could do it [again], it would be Y&R.”

 

I agree with her, and they probably have a less than 5% chance of ever doing it again, which is an incredible indictment of both Y&R and the other shows. (As much as GH has showcased its black cast recently, it feels like a blip. B&B did better with the Avants, and we know what happened to them.)

 

The BLM soap podcast had so much righteous anger, but it depressed me. Soaps never made a space for us, and they went to their graves ignoring and demeaning us.

Edited by Faulkner

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I still haven't listened to the podcast but I plan on it. 

 

I think at times it was easy to be appeased and think well there's a black character or there's a black family, but it wasn't enough. I hate to say but look at primetime it's just as guilty and I hate to use it as an excuse, but primetime well into the 90s and 2000 still cast shows with all white main casts like Friends, SATC, Will and Grace which took place in the most diverse city in the world. Soaps are built around core families and to think that there hasn't been a long lasting black family that has been fleshed out, extended and prominent for decades like a white family is disappointing. 

 

I love soaps, I think it's such a fascinating genre and an incredible form of storytelling. I do not hold any hope for remediation in the treatment of black characters/families and that's because I don't hold out much hope for the genre itself anymore. Well into the 2000s, 2006/7 maybe, I think there was still a faint possibility that the genre could have been saved and I use saved very lightly, but when little was being done besides restricting budgets, cutting casts, and doing the minimum to just get by and make a profit the end was inevitable. There's way too much competition now, more than ever and the soaps are incredibly poor in quality and writing. I have tried to watch all 4 since the shut down and its excruciating. I think there have been some incredible black actors and black characters on soaps but all were handled poorly if we are being honest. I do see some great young black actors today like Sal and Lamon on Days and I think part of that comes from knowing that as a black actor (like in many other realms) you need to work so much harder. They honestly give it their all with the horrendous writing on that show. Not discounting some wonderful vets on Days and young actors too, but watching some of their scenes last week has probably been the most interesting part, I hate to think that talent will be wasted. 

 

I think in retrospect it's easy to see how wrong things have been. Things that were forgiven or maybe we didn't think were a big deal, now we see from a different perspective and realize how unfair or wrong those things were or maybe accepting crumbs just is no longer acceptable. 

Edited by GLATWT88

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5 hours ago, Faulkner said:

I agree with her, and they probably have a less than 5% chance of ever doing it again, which is an incredible indictment of both Y&R and the other shows. (As much as GH has showcased its black cast recently, it feels like a blip. B&B did better with the Avants, and we know what happened to them.)

 

The BLM soap podcast had so much righteous anger, but it depressed me. Soaps never made a space for us, and they went to their graves ignoring and demeaning us.

 

This made me sadder. It's just disheartening to support and love something that doesnt love you back. 

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Ingo Rademacher is why, as a black person, I don’t need every white person to “come out and say something.” Anybody can come out and say whatever they want while their actions tell a completely different story. I’d rather someone be quiet if they don’t have anything of substance to say.

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