@BetterForgotten waiting for him to chime in😁

 @soapfan770 Martha might have been well received but you couldn't tell in the ratings which were lower than when Rattray was there. A big remote and nicely done I might add did poorly in the ratings. The ratings the next few months with Martha back were rather flat.

9 minutes ago, Soapsuds said:

@BetterForgotten waiting for him to chime in😁

 @soapfan770 Martha might have been well received but you couldn't tell in the ratings which were lower than when Rattray was there. A big remote and nicely done I might add did poorly in the ratings. The ratings the next few months with Martha back were rather flat.

 

MB Lily came back at a time when then show had Glynnis O'Connor as Margo, Ned & Debbie Simon taking over, misuse of Royce, Hutch/Roseanna/Evan being front and fore center when none of that set the show on fire lol somehow  ATWT still managed be #5 for the overall season rank. 

Marie Masters commercial 1973

 

 

Actually, I've been working my way through the RATS group, tracking ATWT posts (which were authentic audience responses). As I've made my way through 1990-1992, there was a very clear consensus that Heather wasn't well-liked in the role and I came upon many posts of people hoping Martha would be back (long before Heather left). Granted, that's just a portion of the total audience, and I didn't get to MB's actual return yet, but I get the general impression MB was liked in the role. 

 

On 7/2/2020 at 9:22 PM, Soapsuds said:

Considering how Martha and Colleen didn't get along it's a shame the rivarly didn't continue a la Barbara vs Margo

 

I think this is the first I've heard of Martha and Colleen not getting along. Didn't Martha mention she was happy she got to branch out as Rose and work with Colleen amongst others?

Edited July 3, 20205 yr by Brolden

Yeah - being a new viewer to 80s and 90s ATWT, Martha Byrne is Lily. I can’t believe there’s any question about that. Heather Rattay is not a bad actress but she’s not Lily. She got SORAS’ed and became interested in business - something Lily would NEVER do after her feeling neglected by Lucinda’s business dealings and being so upset when Holden decided to get into corporate life. I’m in September ‘92 and I can’t WAIT to get to back to the real Lily. Heather didn’t have much charisma or spark with anyone on set whereas Martha had chemistry with everyone with whom she worked. It probably came from growing up acting opposite Liz - she learned from that how to really connect to a scene partner.

There was a maturity Heather brought to Lilly that I appreciated and that went away when Byrne came back. I was never wild about Lilly/Holden, so I appreciated the pivot the character took in the early 90's. 

 

And agreed, the Damian storyline was the saving grace for Byrne's Lilly when she came back to the role. 

10 minutes ago, BetterForgotten said:

 

 

And agreed, the Damian storyline was the saving grace for Byrne's Lilly when she came back to the role. 

And that's when the ratings rose again until April of 94. Actually all soap ratings rose after a flat 93.

http://www.jason47.com/days/nielsens1994.html

Lily.and Damian were interesting because both of them were strong willed.  It was when I truly saw the benefits of Liky being raised by Lucinda because she didnt act like a weepy victim that she did when she was with Holden.

 

I liked her Lily in 1993 to 1997 before being stuck to Holden for the rest of the show's run. 

On 6/29/2020 at 4:15 PM, victoria foxton said:

As a young teen watching the show back then. Most of the men gave me a gay vibe. I thought it was just me. Seeing things that weren't there.

 

I liked the idea of James taking care of Barbara's enemies. I loved the friendships between the ladies. But all the high camp at the spa. Wasn't ATWT it was very Days. 

 

LOL totally almost all of them gave off gay vibes. This is the most I've been able to watch of Marland's ATWT and you weren't seeing things that weren't there, lol

 

I didn't like the spa stuff either. Ideas on paper often sound better than played out simply because soaps just don't take the time to layer characters and storylines. It was very DAYS, which is why I wasn't shocked at all when Hogan joined DAYS later on, lol

On 6/28/2020 at 12:00 AM, victoria foxton said:

Episodes from May 18-26,1992. Have just been uploaded. Characters politely gossiping. Or being overly formal with one another. Yet this stuff is way better than the last 17 yrs of it's run. 

 

 

Yep. A less than exciting episode is still way better than the last decade of ATWT

On 6/29/2020 at 8:10 PM, DRW50 said:

 

I don't really think Casey and Lyla had hot chemistry, but I think the story was interesting in showing her choosing between love and career, and her interactions with his very traditional family. I thought Shanks and Sward worked well together in emotional scenes. The one downside is that Casey was basically more of a plot device and never really seemed like his own character, but he was pleasant and a good balance to the more hyperdramatic members of the family, like Margo. 

 

I don't think most Marland-created couples had incredible chemistry, although there were some who had their moments (Jessica/Duncan, Frannie/Daryl, Lucinda/John, Emily/Brock). He wasn't that type of writer. And I'm not sure ATWT was usually that type of show in the first place. There are couples that were beloved and apparently were meant to have burning chemistry and I'm just ??? when I watch them, like Betsy and Steve. But that's just me - I know a lot of people loved them and loved Holden and Lily, so no judgment on my part. 

 

The one time I would say I wish Marland had been a bit more Sheffer-esque is that I wish he'd let his younger characters sleep around with more people. But then this was at the peak of the AIDS crisis, so I guess Marland never would have done that.

 

Lyla and Cal were a pleasant background pairing but mostly seemed like a combo of marking time and wanting to tell more stories about Cal's big business ties after those had already been done with Cal and Emma. I kind of wish they'd kept him with Emma longer as I thought Patrick Tovatt and Kathleen Widdoes had a certain charm and sweetness, which Emma needed by that point as the Snyders were so heavy. 

 

Excellent post Carl! 

 

I liked Emma and Cal too. I get whiplash sometimes with how many couplings so many characters went through during Marland's time. Sometimes they worked, sometimes they didn't. Many of them didn't seem to have chemistry.

 

I also feel like they did a 'swap in/swap out' with certain characters. Exit Ellie enter Connor, for example. I know most soaps do that but I often wondered why they didn't just recast a certain character but I guess soaps weren't always so recast heavy back then, even though they did recast obviously.

On 6/29/2020 at 9:15 PM, mango said:

I thought Casey and Frannie would've made a nice pair. I know the feelings there were one-sided before Lyla came into the picture. Casey sure had more of a personality compared to Seth. 

 

I'm happy we got Casey and Lyla though. Their NYC trip is one of those iconic episodes I look back on with fondness. 

 

I could see Casey and Frannie. Darn it, now I want that! lol

29 minutes ago, KMan101 said:

I could see Casey and Frannie. Darn it, now I want that! lol

 

They were headed for a pairing in 1986 but Marland moved her toward Seth instead. 

On 7/2/2020 at 3:22 PM, Soapsuds said:

I enjoyed Heather's Lily double crossing Barbara. Lucinda would be proud. It's too bad the rivalry between Barbara and Lily didn't last long.

Considering how Martha and Colleen didn't get along it's a shame the rivarly didn't continue a la Barbara vs Margo. That also went out the window when Ellen Dolan came in as Margo in 1990.

 

I enjoyed Lily vs. Barbara too

1 minute ago, DRW50 said:

 

They were headed for a pairing in 1986 but Marland moved her toward Seth instead. 

 

Ahhh. Thank you!

1 hour ago, KMan101 said:

 

 

 

I could see Casey and Frannie. Darn it, now I want that! lol

 

Casey got friend-zoned  

 

I remember Casey getting drunk after Frannie gently turned him down, ranting to Dusty about women not knowing what they want.

2 hours ago, Soaplovers said:

Lily.and Damian were interesting because both of them were strong willed.  It was when I truly saw the benefits of Liky being raised by Lucinda because she didnt act like a weepy victim that she did when she was with Holden.

 

I liked her Lily in 1993 to 1997 before being stuck to Holden for the rest of the show's run. 

 

This sums it up pretty nicely. Plus Lily and Connor had a fun little feud of sorts that I enjoyed watching during those years as well. 

I think there's a fine line---Rattray was better suited for the version of Lily that she portrayed. I can't imagine Byrne pulling off that cold, controlling, Lucinda-like vibe Lily had when she first returned. And part of my problem with Byrne is I never felt she grew as an actress. Now, whether that was because Lily was forced to circle back to Holden time and time again, or simply because Byrne only has so much in her wheelhouse, I don't know. 

 

It's personal preference. Just like Scott Bryce will always be my Craig, or Melanie Smith the superior Emily. 

 

Re: the Spa. The actual "Spa" part, with the blue drinks and Larkin Malloy---yeah, not so much. But I get why Martha, Kelley and Maura enjoyed it. They got to step outside their characters a bit, and for Kelley and Maura, it was easier to lounge around in white fluffy robes while preggers. And afterwards, at least for a while, they got to play the friendship out. Neither Emily or Carly really had women friends on the show (outside of family). Lily neither, although Rose had Mitzi.

Wonder what ever happened to those annoying actors that invaded the show circa 1996 ?  Lisa Lawrence who played Sarah Kasnoff has some credits on IMDB prior to 2007, but John Howard who played Paul Ryan for like 5 minutes is not even listed. Aisha Henderson who played (Zoe) only has 3 credits (1996-1999)