OLTL: Kyle & Fish spoiler

[Southofnowhere]

Do they have a couple name yet?

How about Kish or Fyle?

Dumb question but how are those couple name picked?

Who decides? The Gay Mafia?

[leevo64]

I T A

I can't imagine the story being an "A" story, and if it is prominently featured it may just be one element of a bigger story. Can we all wait and see before burning a cross on Ron Carlivati's lawn?

[DRW50]

I think some people may have been upset because they were already being sold as a couple, which was reminiscent of Nuke and Otalia. I don't see them as being the same but I can see how some might. It seemed like one of the reasons some liked Rafe on Y&R before that story even started was because anything with Adam wouldn't be about a couple, instead Rafe would just be a plot point.

[SFK]

The fault, dear Brutus, is not in my critique, it's in the soaps' handling of gay characters and storylines. "Gay" is not the new "black", gay is not the new anything, gay is gay and has been since time began, and I don't feel that TPTB see it this way. My problem is that in my eyes homosexuality is being *treated* as a fad, an au courant soap staple, *I* don't feel that way, it's what I imagine things are like behind the scenes, i.e., "Every show's getting a gay couple, gays are so hot right now, we gotta get ourselves one..." Isn't it even the slightest bit suspicious that one happens and four follow? It shouldn't be like that. In general, TPTB shouldn't be so reticent, so afraid to step out and tell a story until they get the yea or nay depending on the success of their peers. But if they are going to "borrow" from other soaps, they owe it to themselves to tell the hell out of the story, to do something really powerful and unique... especially OLTL with the Billy Douglas s/l in its history. I'm not saying that gay characters shouldn't be introduced just to avoid appearing faddish or anything, but I do expect that they respect the subject matter and deliver good story. It's not about just tossing gay characters at hungry viewers.

As far as black characters are concerned, soaps have told stories of race relations, topics unique to the black community... not many, and there are many more to tell, but for the most part blacks on soaps have surpassed "novelty" and have become integral to the canvas. Of course, there are very few examples, minorities are terribly underrepresented on soaps. There will come a day when gay storylines will no longer make the news, and that's wonderful, but in order for that to happen, the right stories told the right way must first build the foundation. I mean, just imagine how much further we'd have already come had Joey been gay as originally planned, instead of Bianca almost a decade later.

[All My Shadows]

I get this. The reason why the fight against the kissing ban got so much attention was because it was something that ties into a hot-button current event. That makes sense. But ugh...I just hate that ATWT thinks that by letting Nuke kiss, they've made the fans happy and that's that. Everything else they're doing is a good job because people aren't going on CNN to protest it. It rubs me the wrong way.

Or much, much worse, they'll tune in and see two old hags named Viki and Dorian arguing with each other, and they'll change the channel in utter disgust because these two broads are sucking up time on The Fish and Kyle Show. Real [!@#$%^&*], I once read someone complaining that "those old people," namely Bob, Kim, and the rest of the Tom/Margo anniversary party people, were taking up too much time on ATWT, time that could have been better spent on Nuke. I was furious.

[SFK]

P.S. YurSoakinginit, I'm sorry if I offended you, please believe me when I say that's the last thing I wanted to do.

[You're Soaking in it]

SFK, there were parts of your posts that did involve with what I was talking about, but please understand that my previous post was not directed at you. Just wanted to get that out of the way....

You talked about what you "imagine" happens behind the scenes, and I quoted that because it really is what it all amounts to at this point: a whole bunch of conjecture. I know what motivates the decisions of TPTB.... it's called advertising revenue. So whenever we get into asking about what "they're thinking," that's all it comes down to. That being the case, EVERY part of their storytelling could be chocked up to being a fad. I don't know their levels of sensitivity until I see a story play on screen. On paper, and in Frons' office, it probably isn't any different than how they "treat" every other story. Some ideas turn out great, others not so much.

But here we are, guns blazing, and the story hasn't even really got off the ground yet.

Soaps probably aren't going to be on for more than a few more years. (Hey, I don't like it, but I'm being honest.) I wouldn't mind if EVERY one of them at least made an attempt to depict GLBT characters before the genre's demise. I don't know how the OLTL story will play out... but I'm not going to be standing, waiting with a bucket of tar and bag of feathers. I'm willing to see what will play.

It's okay, I wasn't offended, and I didn't mean to offend you nor (as I said before) direct anything I said in my first response squarely at you.

[DRW50]

I think most gay men of any age would love Dorian. I'm not sure about female viewers who may tune in to see "Kish", but they may admire Viki.

Now I'm imagining Brian Frons pretending to be a 20 year old Chelsea twink, writing letters demanding those icky old bags get off his show.

[IcyOne]

Well, again, I *do* see this as a not-so-subtle attempt on OLTL's part to jump on a gay bandwagon.

For the last 6 to 9 months, the show has had Fish obsess over Layla -- in a way that was nearly akin to Screech bugging Lisa Turtle for a date on Saved by the Bell. Going so far as to have him sleep with Stacy to take his mind off of her, and then getting his feelings hurt when she wasn't interested in him either. After all that, they do an about face and abruptly rebrand this character as gay (with Layla being altered from would-be love interest to, most likely, his faghag.) This conveniently comes just mere months after Y&R starts leaking their intentions to copycat ATWT and GL with a gay story/characters/couple of their own. Now suddenly OLTL announces that they too are doing the same. How spurious. I see it as jerky...I see it as conniving...I see it as insincere...and ultimately, I see it as unnecessary. It's nothing but a cheap attempt to get in on some of the cheap summertime attention that Y&R is gunning for. (The only element that's missing is Brett Claywell saying 'hell no' and quitting the show before the s/l starts.)

Once more, to me, this reeks of a follow-the-pack bandwagoning mentality. If I want to see what other soaps are doing, I'll watch those soaps. I have zero interest in OLTL doing their own version of what's currently being played out elsewhere. I don't know whether to at least be thankful that Kyle and Fish are two paper thin characters who can be disposed of at any minute, and take some kind of solace in that...or annoyed that these 2 dayplayer-ish tokens are being prepped to quite possibly overwhelm the show for at least the next few months.

And based on some of the comments I read on the piece at A.E., unfortunately we most likely CAN count on counterfeit agenda viewers tuning in for no other reason than to see Kyle and Fish play gay. From there it's a short leap to anticipate that they'll be avalanching the soap forums with their banners and noise makers, bitching when these characters aren't on...and, worst of all, turning them into pseudo political figureheads.

'Nuke' comes to Llanview. Oy vey!

I hope whoever mans the ABC soap comment line is given a raise.

[MarkH]

[DRW50]

I think the Fish/Layla breakup was much more about wanting to push Layla and Cristian together (since their plans for Vanessa and Cris tanked) than about suddenly wanting to put Fish into a gay story. Fish and Layla were never much of a couple, and most of his scenes have always been more about his work. Then he slept with Stacy so they could finish him with Layla for good. Supposedly he was going to be the KAD killer before they brought in Powell and Rebecca. Then I guess they decided to do this with Kyle, who was originally a very minor character who clicked with viewers.

Aren't most people who start watching a show because of a specific reason, like big casting news, or a big new storyline, counterfeit agenda viewers? 35 years ago, OLTL got a ratings boost because of viewers who tuned in solely to see Jacqui Courtney and George Reinholt. If not for them, OLTL might not even be on the air now.

[SFK]

At the end of the day, if it works it works and that would be great. No one WANTS their show to fail. But there's something to be said for the many knee-jerk reactions of negativity. That doesn't come out of nowhere... once burned, twice shy. I do like Carl's point about Courtney/Reinholdt, there's a history of stunts to lure viewers, even Linda Dano. Now of course those were fails for the most part, but OLTL could turn this buzz it's getting into something much bigger if they boldly go where no Nuke has gone before. That's really their only chance of making this a success. Daniel Colson and that kid from Broadway, that was already a *scandalous* gay s/l, so they need to top that. And are we even talking romance here or just a history of a one-sided emotional relationship where the other guy was just in it for the physical benefits.

[Ann_SS]

How is OLTL going to go boldly with a gay relationship with two day players? Already the unrealistic hopes and expectations begin.

[DRW50]

That's what I don't know. I have never seen OLTL say this will be a romance, nor have they said this will be a big storyline. This is a storyline about two supporting characters who had a fling in the past. For all we know this will be about as big a story as Moe and Noelle getting married, or Destini's crush on Matthew. If not for Nelson, Perez, and the rest talking about the story, how many non-OLTL viewers would even know. Now the show is probably going to get it both ways -- if they tell a big story, then people will blast them for bandwagoning and for having an agenda. If they don't, then people will blast them for cowardice, for selling out.

This story actually could be what many who hate Nuke or hate Otalia want for gay characters on daytime, just a small story about characters and their lives and they only happen to be gay. I doubt we're going to get Scott Evans and Brett Claywell doing photo shoots. I think the people who already hate the story may get a tale more to their liking than what than they're expecting.

[SFK]

Well I don't have any unrealistic hopes or expectations, but I'm not going to totally fault the fans who do. It's ABC who's trumpeting this s/l, they're the ones who've made press releases, and then there are people like Perez Hilton (who is apparently going through his social activism phase given his recent media involvement) who add to the hype. Like you and Carl are saying, these characters are on the Moe, Noelle, Destiny level, so yes, there shouldn't be any huge expectations. But if they aren't planning on doing anything new, interesting, bold, then true to soap form they have disappointed the fans before they've even started. You know, like, "Why do you build me up buttercup?"

And might I add... if I've never watched OLTL or soaps in general, when I tune in to catch this gay s/l I've heard about and realize that these guys are only on one and a half times a week and I've already missed both times, I've already begun to lose interest. Someone like former user/player Rex, or even former jerk/pre-Al transformation Michael McBain, would have been a much better choice for half of this duo.