OLTL: Kyle & Fish spoiler

[DRW50]

I don't see these situations as being the same. Otalia haven't even kissed more than once (and that wasn't exactly romantic) and one actress is about to go on maternity leave, and the show is being canceled, so Otalia fans, for however how much they want more, probably know it's almost up and they should just enjoy what they can.

Nuke fans have gotten, for several years of supporting the show, an offcamera love scene and the show lifting a ban on the characters kissing. If they've been demanding more, they haven't really gotten it.

I can't imagine OLTL making huge concessions to fans of a couple who are very minor characters and who could be written out in an instant. Especially since OLTL's history with gay characters in the past decade was mostly about a serial killer who was made gay only so the show would get attention. If OLTL were a show that caved to demands of vocal fan bases who come to the show because of a big hyped story, then Tarty would be together right now.

I think if they had wanted to do a gay story with bigger characters besides Kyle and Fish, then Brody or Rex could have been good candidates, but I don't think OLTL cares about a major gay storyline. And with all the pushback any time a soap does a gay story (aside from Y&R, which has obviously treated their one gay character as being part of the furniture and will likely only give him a story if it involves being used by a straight man who is the show's big villain), I can see why.

I only read a few boards but I don't think gay fans are responsible for this story, and I've also never seen OLTL marketing this as a big story for gay fans. I saw some fans, gay and straight, who picked up on a vibe between Kyle and Fish, and then this was discussed for a few months, and finally, Branco and Perez Hilton and finally Afterelton start hyping what they've heard.

I haven't seen any indication this story is about taking over the show, or about catering to gay fans, but even if it is, I can't get outraged. Not when Stacey, who has no strong ties to anyone but Gigi, has taken over much of the show, and whose storylines involve pandering to some neanderthal demographic which does not even watch daytime TV.

I hope at some point a show will be able to do a gay story without being seen as trying to jump on a bandwagon, or without the fans of that couple being seen as any more demanding than most other fans of a couple. But I don't think that's going to happen now because for all the hype from Branco and others in that group, I really don't expect this story to be anything more than a blip involving two supporting characters. I will be shocked if they are both even on the show at the end of the year, or if their story goes above the airtime status of people like Noelle and Moe.

[SFK]

Just as having a Ewing-like clan and an Alexis clone was a mark of the '80s, so will having a gay SuperthanksforaskingCouple be for the Millennies. The story itself doesn't bother me, it's the fact that it smacks of unoriginality and a lame attempt at birthing a new cult-like fanbase. But maybe, just maybe this decision isn't as transparent as it seems and the folks at OLTL have a determination to do this kind of s/l "right"... or maybe just a new spin on it? They've already done the "scandalous" gay s/l with Nora's ex. Maybe this one with Fish and Kyle will be like the gay fans' wishful thinking long-rumored to be nixed storylines of secret sexual past with Rex and Seth or Jonathan and Sandy on GL.

[DRW50]

Do you think the story is unoriginal because of what's been told on the show or because of other stories in daytime at the moment?

I think the idea (two men sexually experiment while in college, and meet up again years later) is different from any other gay stories on soaps. If they make Fish bisexual, not gay, that's also different. Fish is also a good guy, while Kyle is happy to blackmail and scheme to get what he wants.

I'm only saying the idea is potentially original. I don't think the execution will be good enough, because it never is on OLTL now, and because both characters are meaningless to the canvas.

[All My Shadows]

I threw Otalia in there because I find, and I'm sure I'm not alone in finding this, that many of their fans are "fair weather" fans. As long as the Otalia train is moving full steam ahead, Guiding Light is the best show on the air, it doesn't deserve to be canceled, it needs to live on, Lifetime had better pick it up and continue it, and if they don't, they're gonna be attacked by a bunch of clowns in purple T-shirts.

As for Nuke fans, the thing is, they HAVEN'T demanded more, have they? They get their kisses, they got their "sex," and now it's all smooth sailing. If a person can admit that the couple's storylines have been consistently bad, where is the outrage behind that? Then there's the excuse of "well, the whole show is written bad." Okay...and you had this great stage to get on and voice opinions about the show and its writing, the way Nuke was rushed together and how their storylines have sucked, but the focus was placed squarely on the kissing ban. Okay. They kissed. And the stories still suck.

I just want OLTL to know that if Fish/Kyle is gonna be a "story" (and we don't know that it is...it could very well be nothing more than supporting material that has been blown out of proportion by Queen N.), they need to play out all the right beats. Some fans may be satisfied with kisses, flirtations, and offcamera love-making, but some of us...I don't know...we actually want a story when we watch the stories.

[DRW50]

I don't go to a lot of the fan boards, but the Otalia fans I do see seem to enjoy other characters (like Dinah), although their main reason for watching is Otalia. I guess I'm at the point where I can see why people would only watch for one story because that's the way a lot of soap fans are now. I think there's a difference between watching for a couple, or a character, and being a demanding fan who has to be placated by the show. I've seen some Nuke fans who have said they know some of the Nuke stories are awful, but they probably know how little they can expect. Almost all of ATWT is awful, so demanding better quality isn't going to make a difference.

I think anyone who expects a big story for Kyle and Fish is setting themselves up for a fall, especially since OLTL hasn't told people to expect a big story. But if Kyle and Fish do have a relationship, then if they do have fans and those fans enjoy them, I can't really blame them, because there are no stories on OLTL now, or most soaps, which are about playing the right beats, or having strong pacing.

[MarkH]

OLTL is the classic non-original then. In the 1980s it THREW AWAY its classic identity (bye Woleks! bye Carla!) and got themselves some ... Ewings. Buchanans, to be exact. So, the show is just remaining true to its trend-copying roots.

I agree with everything above.

And if ten more people tune in for "Kish" or "Fyle", that's 20 more eyeballs for the advertisers. In these end-times, I'm in favor of any experiment. Even hermaphrodites impregnated by their fathers.

[SFK]

I think the idea is original enough, well, original in that it's never been done though fans have been "proposing" such a story for years now. What I find unoriginal is jumping on the gay bandwagon, like it's hip to do a gay s/l right now especially with one on another network opposite your own show and one on a soon-to-be defunct show. Now of course ABC's own AMC really got that ball rolling, but that's beside the point. I just have an issue with people (gay, black, asian, disabled, whatever) being considered "in" for the moment, that whole keeping up with the Joneses style of storytelling. Similarly, I am turned off by AMC jumping on the Cougar craze (late) with the Erica/Ryan thing. Soaps have always reflected the times, but they used to be so much better at speaking to larger issues and setting trends instead of following them.

[All My Shadows]

They demanded to see Nuke kiss, and that made a difference, so yeah, I think that if there was an organized effort to do something about improving this show, there might be some positive results. The only problem is finding a leader who isn't all about having Jake and Van knock boots all across the screen.

[DRW50]

I think this may have been more about censorship than story quality. If Nuke had never kissed, then the backtrack may not have been so noticeable. Then people started hearing more about the boycotts from anti-gay groups which had led to the ban. Many who probably never watch ATWT got involved, and then the national press picked up the story. Once the emphasis is on demanding story quality, the ground shifts, because I'm sure people have written in for years wondering why blacks are treated so poorly, why the Hughes are MIA, why Meg and Paul and Dusty suck up the show, et al. and their demands are never answered.

[DRW50]

That makes sense. Getting new fans to watch a soap is a smart idea. Ideally, they would start watching for this story and then love the rest, but that means getting the show up to a better standard of quality.

I'm still not sure how I feel because I don't think OLTL has been pushing this as some big story. I think people who haven't actually watched OLTL and who have only heard of this because of Nelson, or Perez, are going to be let down. For all they know, Fish and Kyle are the stars of the show. Imagine their reaction if they tune in and see 3 or 4 days a week of Stacey and her bad nose.

[DRW50]

I agree about bandwagon stories being annoying, but I also think gays and lesbians should have been integrated into soaps years ago. If the story is just being done to try to get attention, then that sucks and isn't worth the very small boost they'll probably get in the numbers. If the story is about moving OLTL towards being more inclusive, and telling a type of story we haven't seen before with men on soaps, then it could work.

I don't really see any big gay craze on daytime, but even if I did, sometimes that's what a show needs to move forward. Y&R had black characters from the start of the 80s, but supposedly it was Generations which caused Y&R to build a solid black family with Mamie, Olivia and Drusilla, followed by their marriages to Nathan and Neil. Dru in particular became a major part of Y&R's success for a long time.

[dragonflies]

I agree, they seem to be doing for the sake of doing it. Play follow the leader.

I'm not impressed with RC's work, so I have NO doubt he'll find a way to eff this up

[SFK]

Agreed. These baby steps are important. I guess what's frustrating is that it often feels like we've been on the same step for ten years now. As long as we're moving forward. I think there are a lot of places daytime would like to go, but TPTB and some of the American people aren't quite ready.

[You're Soaking in it]

I'm honestly a little disappointed and put off by some - just some - of the comments I've read here. I don't see the big deal. It's not like gay people (or people who've had same-sex experiences) DON'T EXIST. So when they are depicted, it's now "jumping on a bandwagon?"

Well, geeez, let's make sure we don't portray certain REAL aspects of life - for fear of possibly being accused of being unoriginal. (And of course we all know that every soap goes out of its way to avoid doing anything that another soap does. I mean, THAT is unheard of!)

Seriously - apart from the legitimate concerns about the story involving less-than-contract players and potential bungling of the story - I sort of take this whole "bandwagon" stuff as being trite. When I realized I was gay, it didn't involve any bandwagons. When a character surfaces as gay/lesbian/bi/transgender, why can't we say "great, they're actually depicting people who walk the earth in real life! Let's hope TPTB does right by this idea?"

Imagine if new characters of any certain ethnicity started showing up on various shows, and viewers started rolling their eyes, saying, "oh, no... here we go again! Another soap jumps on the (insert any ethnicity here) bandwagon..." I take some of the comments from this discussion in the same vein.

On a higher note, I'm happy to see people on here who are taking a critical eye of the story without trivializing the idea of gay characters as just being some sort of new fad.

[alexisfan07]

PASSIONS!