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1 minute ago, FrenchBug82 said:


I think the racial undertones of that should not be ignored.
I firmly believe some of the subtext of what happened is that she didn't look or sound like a "sterotypical" Latina and that became a problem in the minds of TPTB because the cliches they wanted to rely on (see her "fire" leading her to bring a gun to Joe's return in the first episodes) weren't clicking with her more subtle performance and non-daughter-of-the-Latina-maid appearance.

 

Yet, despite this, they cast Margaret Michaels, who like her predecessor, also did not look or sound like a "stereotypical" Latina.

By the time Gina Gallego was cast, this role was such a throw-away I am sure Gallego lasted as long as she did.

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8 minutes ago, Liberty City said:

 

Yet, despite this, they cast Margaret Michaels, who like her predecessor, also did not look or sound like a "stereotypical" Latina.


That's fair but it is not like they didn't have a history of being all over the place. 
If they wanted Lazar when they hired her and then, in my theory, fired her four months later in part because she didn't fit the stereotype even after they died her hair, they could very well hire Michaels another five months later even though she didn't quite fit the concern they had in December when they fired Lazar.

You know what I am saying? Consistency wasn't exactly SB's decision-makers' forte.
I dunno. I always thought that had to be a factor.

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Just now, FrenchBug82 said:


That's fair but it is not like they didn't have a history of being all over the place. 
If they wanted Lazar when they hired her and then, in my theory, fired her four months later in part because she didn't fit the stereotype even after they died her hair, they could very well hire Michaels another five months later even though she didn't quite fit the concern they had in December when they fired Lazar.

You know what I am saying? Consistency wasn't exactly SB's decision-makers' forte.
I dunno. I always thought that had to be a factor.

 

I know people herald the Dobsons, however, given what I've seen and read, they were not as well-off as they are made to be.

That first year, a lot and I do mean A LOT of mistakes were made, in terms of story and casting, and they continued to happen.

Now, whether it was the Dobsons, their co-executive producers, the production company or NBC making those shots, it seems like from the start, this soap was doomed.

 

Ava Lazar, at the end of the day, was perfectly cast in the role of Santana, and she brought a depth and warmth to the role that each of her successors failed to bring.

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Still say one of the Dobsons' stupidest casting mistakes was firing Carrington Garland for Eileen Davidson. They claimed that, for all Kelly had lived, she should appear older, etc. But when they hired Robin Wright, she was already too young, so why did it suddenly matter?

 

When the Dobsons were good, they were very good. But when they messed up, they did it with gusto.

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I think several factors probably played into the early demise of the Andrade and the Perkins clans. For the Perkins, casting failed to deliver actors to bring to life those characters. John, Marissa, and Jade had the potential to be dynamic characters, but the actors failed to hone in on the really interesting aspects of those characters. With Jade, the Dobsons seemed to play to Melissa Brennan's strengths and softened the character who initially was suppose to be a young social climbing vixen. Valorie Armstrong failed to recognize the potential of Marissa as the overbearing middle class helicopter mother who meddled in her son's relationship. Robert Alan Browne may have had the boisterous rough neck down, but the lack of raw sexuality defanged a lot of the elements of the Marissa - John - Joe dynamic. Kerry Sherman seems to be the one stand out who seems to work in her role. It's a shame that the show didn't try to recenter the family's story around Amy. Once the Dobsons grew bored with the Joe-Kelly dynamic the family was pretty much doomed. 

 

With both families, the Dobsons have alluded to the fact that NBC wanted to the show to be youthful so I think the elimination of the first generation of those families was related to that matter. 

 

With the Andrades, it seemed mostly a lack of interest in the family as a whole. In 1984, they were introduced without even having a central set, correct? Santana had her apartment, but I don't think we saw the Andrade home. That says something about where the value is. Besides Santana, the characters were underdeveloped in the story. I don't know if I've ever seen any significant scene with Ruben in it.  The initial arc where Rosa learns that Santana had Channing's child played out too quickly and the conflict between the Andrades and the Capwells over Brandon were never really capitalized on to what I can see. Cordova is very strong and is given some meaty scenes in the Dobsons 1991 return. There is a great set of scenes where Santana has been decorating C.C.'s bedroom. Rosa is displeased by the budding romantic liasion between Santana and C.C. and states quite deftly that Santana's place is downstairs. This leads to Santana throwing Ruben's abandonment of Rosa in her face, which is just powerful.  

 

Santana herself is such a missed opportunity. The decision to dump Ava Lazar is mind boggling. She is green in those early episodes, but she is charismatic and develops quickly into a force to be recogned with. In what I've seen of Margaret Michaels, she doesn't have the spark that Santana needed. Gina Gallego seems to fall into some bad writing, but I think she was a strong enough actress. I actually like Wanda DeJesus. There is definitely an edge to her Santana, and she plays the embittered element of Santana well. I just wish that the Dobsons had managed to marry off Santana and C.C. in order for Santana to get custody of Channing Capwell III. That would have been great. 

 

I know there were two other Andrade girls referenced in the early weeks. One, Gabriella seemed rather youn as she was always on the phone. I wonder if they would have brought her into the teen group eventually. The other, Olivia, was a doctor. I wonder if Renee Jones' Toni Carlin was originally suppose to be Olivia Andrade and they ended up tweaking the role. Toni seemed like a significant recurring player for a hot minute before she seemed to disappear. 

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Posted (edited)

The late Tawny Kitaen was so good. In these scenes. She holds her own. As well as having great chemistry. With her screen partners. Lisa had so much potential. Of course this being SB. She was only on for 5 months. 

 

Edited by victoria foxton
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I never understood why the Di Napoli family was brought to Santa Barbara. It was a rather weird time with the Donnellys, (Ethan and Laura Asher as well?) and CC's newest son (and Ted replacement) Craig Richardson. The show had a hard time keeping up with a plan and a specific vision. Cruz & Eden, some Capwell drama, rape stories and random people taking over for six months.

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4 hours ago, Elsa said:

I never understood why the Di Napoli family was brought to Santa Barbara. It was a rather weird time with the Donnellys, (Ethan and Laura Asher as well?) and CC's newest son (and Ted replacement) Craig Richardson. The show had a hard time keeping up with a plan and a specific vision. Cruz & Eden, some Capwell drama, rape stories and random people taking over for six months.

Throughout SB's run. Characters came and went rather quickly. No tentpole/core characters outside the Capwell's and Cruz. 

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On 5/13/2021 at 4:35 PM, Wendy said:

Still say one of the Dobsons' stupidest casting mistakes was firing Carrington Garland for Eileen Davidson. They claimed that, for all Kelly had lived, she should appear older, etc. But when they hired Robin Wright, she was already too young, so why did it suddenly matter?

 

When the Dobsons were good, they were very good. But when they messed up, they did it with gusto.

 

Carrington Garland was amazing as Kelly, based on clips I've seen, and is most definitely the best Kelly. Am still on Robin Wright's portrayal (currently on SB 828), and look forward to seeing everyone else.

 

However, the Dobsons' decision to recast, for me, further proves they made some absolute sh*t casting decisions during their tenures as executive producers.


 

On 5/18/2021 at 12:16 AM, dc11786 said:

I think several factors probably played into the early demise of the Andrade and the Perkins clans. For the Perkins, casting failed to deliver actors to bring to life those characters. John, Marissa, and Jade had the potential to be dynamic characters, but the actors failed to hone in on the really interesting aspects of those characters. With Jade, the Dobsons seemed to play to Melissa Brennan's strengths and softened the character who initially was suppose to be a young social climbing vixen. Valorie Armstrong failed to recognize the potential of Marissa as the overbearing middle class helicopter mother who meddled in her son's relationship. Robert Alan Browne may have had the boisterous rough neck down, but the lack of raw sexuality defanged a lot of the elements of the Marissa - John - Joe dynamic. Kerry Sherman seems to be the one stand out who seems to work in her role. It's a shame that the show didn't try to recenter the family's story around Amy. Once the Dobsons grew bored with the Joe-Kelly dynamic the family was pretty much doomed. 

 

The true demise of the Perkins family was the Dobsons' decision to recast the role of Joe from Dane Witherspoon to Mark Arnold.
It is my belief had Ross Kettle auditioned with an American accent, at least visually, he would have worked better for the role of Joe than Arnold did.

Kerry Sherman was fantastic as Amy Perkins, and they really did do her wrong in the role.

Jade, along with Danny Andrade, felt like toys to play the Laken-Ted storyline, which again went nowhere, especially once Julie Ronnie exited as Laken.

 

On 5/18/2021 at 12:16 AM, dc11786 said:

With the Andrades, it seemed mostly a lack of interest in the family as a whole. In 1984, they were introduced without even having a central set, correct? Santana had her apartment, but I don't think we saw the Andrade home. That says something about where the value is. Besides Santana, the characters were underdeveloped in the story. I don't know if I've ever seen any significant scene with Ruben in it.  The initial arc where Rosa learns that Santana had Channing's child played out too quickly and the conflict between the Andrades and the Capwells over Brandon were never really capitalized on to what I can see. Cordova is very strong and is given some meaty scenes in the Dobsons 1991 return. There is a great set of scenes where Santana has been decorating C.C.'s bedroom. Rosa is displeased by the budding romantic liasion between Santana and C.C. and states quite deftly that Santana's place is downstairs. This leads to Santana throwing Ruben's abandonment of Rosa in her face, which is just powerful.  

 

We did see the Andrade home in November 1984, when the earthquake hit, and it was supposedly damaged; other than that, we never saw the set.
You can view it here, thanks to Santa Barbara Online.

For me, the lack of interest in the Andrade family came from the fact the Dobsons played on the trope of Latin families being "the help" for a rich, white family, which is unfortunate.

Not to mention, dropping the Brandon storyline where Santana was concerned (also brought on by horrible Santana mis-recastings) derailed the family.

 

If Santa Barbara were rebooted in 2021, I would love to see Brandon try and take his stake claim in the Capwell family, re-igniting the feud between Santana, Gina and the Capwells.

 

On 5/18/2021 at 12:16 AM, dc11786 said:

Santana herself is such a missed opportunity. The decision to dump Ava Lazar is mind boggling. She is green in those early episodes, but she is charismatic and develops quickly into a force to be recogned with. In what I've seen of Margaret Michaels, she doesn't have the spark that Santana needed. Gina Gallego seems to fall into some bad writing, but I think she was a strong enough actress. I actually like Wanda DeJesus. There is definitely an edge to her Santana, and she plays the embittered element of Santana well. I just wish that the Dobsons had managed to marry off Santana and C.C. in order for Santana to get custody of Channing Capwell III. That would have been great. 

 

YES YES YES!

To me, Ava Lazar was the unconventional soap actor, which is why she fit perfectly in the role.

With each recast, they kept trying to find that typical soap actor, and a more "Latin presence," and it backfired, because it lacked the role and did the character a disservice.

Margaret Michaels began to genuinely fit as Santana by the end of her tenure in the role, but, the Dobsons (lol they've gotta stop) wanted Gina Gallego from the start (even prior to Lazar's casting), so when they landed her, they took her and ran.

I'm not saying Gallego was not a good actor... but I really did not like her take on the role. Turning Santana into a Cruz-obsessed, drug-addicted mess was such a disservice.

 

On 5/18/2021 at 12:16 AM, dc11786 said:

I know there were two other Andrade girls referenced in the early weeks. One, Gabriella seemed rather youn as she was always on the phone. I wonder if they would have brought her into the teen group eventually. The other, Olivia, was a doctor. I wonder if Renee Jones' Toni Carlin was originally suppose to be Olivia Andrade and they ended up tweaking the role. Toni seemed like a significant recurring player for a hot minute before she seemed to disappear. 

 

The missing Andrade sisters: Olivia and Gabriella, were again missed opportunities to really bring forth some incredible family development.

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Santa Barbara burned through characters perhaps faster than in other soap. Outside of the Capwells, Cruz, and Gina, they often struggled writing for other characters. Which characters in particular did you think were missed opportunities? There were so many on SB...often gone before you could really get into them. I remember the entire Richards family which was talked about for a few months...we saw them for a few months at most...and they wrapped them up in like a week of story.

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41 minutes ago, pdm1974 said:

Santa Barbara burned through characters perhaps faster than in other soap. Outside of the Capwells, Cruz, and Gina, they often struggled writing for other characters. Which characters in particular did you think were missed opportunities? There were so many on SB...often gone before you could really get into them. I remember the entire Richards family which was talked about for a few months...we saw them for a few months at most...and they wrapped them up in like a week of story.

 

For me, the Lockridge family were horribly mishandled, especially given they were kind of the adversaries of the Capwells.

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3 minutes ago, Liberty City said:

 

For me, the Lockridge family were horribly mishandled, especially given they were kind of the adversaries of the Capwells.

I loved the Lockridges, too. In many ways, I thought they were more entertaining than the Capwells.

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2 minutes ago, pdm1974 said:

I loved the Lockridges, too. In many ways, I thought they were more entertaining than the Capwells.

 

TPTB just dismantled that family so much that, by the end, they barely resembled the ensemble they once were... and I'm not even talking about the casting changes.

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I think Laken being cast with Julie Ronnie...doomed the long term potential of the character. 

 

I actually think melissa brennan/Reeves should have been Laken.  She basically played a Laken esque character on Days...and she had a good rapport with the actor playing Warren.

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