GH November 2020 Discussion

[victoria foxton]

4 hours ago, prefab1 said:

I also find the Sonny and Jason parts of GH basically unwatchable, but I don't think they're to blame for the ratings drop. Frankly, all soaps (and all primetime network shows) are seeing huge drops in the Nielsen ratings, because there are too many different entertainment options out there competing for eyeballs. And Sonny and Jason have been the show's primary focus for over 20 years now; someone must like that stuff, even if it isn't me.

 

I'd actually say that the show's bigger problem is that they have such a bloated cast, including tons of newbies with questionable acting abilities. Why "tune in tomorrow" when your faves might be offscreen for days or weeks at a time?

I think your partially right. About viewing options. But years and years of GH being dark and insufferable. Has taken it's toll as well. The mob element is played out at this point. A show needs new concepts. For it to flourish and survive. A soap about healers. Being overrun by mobsters, serial killers and rapists. For 20 years is so STUPID.

[vetsoapfan]

5 hours ago, prefab1 said:

I also find the Sonny and Jason parts of GH basically unwatchable, but I don't think they're to blame for the ratings drop. Frankly, all soaps (and all primetime network shows) are seeing huge drops in the Nielsen ratings, because there are too many different entertainment options out there competing for eyeballs.

 

 

I would respectfully counter that, yes, ALL the soaps' ratings are way, way down because...ALL of them have been atrocious for the past two decades. All the shows have lost their way and continued to make the same bad decisions over and over again. Even die-hard fans finally just gave up. GH's biggest blunders are continuing to focus heavily on a small number iof degenerate characters while the vast majority of its huge, bloated cast is sidelined. 

 

5 hours ago, prefab1 said:

 

 

I'd actually say that the show's bigger problem is that they have such a bloated cast, including tons of newbies with questionable acting abilities. Why "tune in tomorrow" when your faves might be offscreen for days or weeks at a time?

 

Yep. I used to at least record the soaps to "watch" later (actually, fast-forward through until I found scenes with any of my favorite characters). Now I don't even do that, because most of the time, no one I care for appears, and I literally FF through the entire episodes for days or weeks on end.

40 minutes ago, titan1978 said:

I would agree that the focus on Sonny/Carly/Jason didn’t drive the ratings so low except we have the proof of the first and second years of Ron/Frank when they were not the focus and the ratings climbed to a near ten year high.  And during that time a ton of classic characters were back, they had a long term story with payoffs (Robin’s “death”/kidnapping by Faison) that had very little to do with Sonny.  The show even survived Steve Burton quitting.  Maurice Bernard complained that he wasn’t being used enough and everything changed almost overnight.

 

I think the real culprit with the ratings decline for this show was never ending depressing storylines, revolving around the same 4 to 6 characters, and marginalizing everyone else

 

Right; we have at least some indication that there are more viewers out there who would come back to the show and raise the ratings...if GH would just stop (or at least lessen) the endless, inexplicable and immoral mob garbage,

41 minutes ago, victoria foxton said:

I think your partially right. About viewing options. But years and years of GH being dark and insufferable. Has taken it's toll as well. The mob element is played out at this point. A show needs new concepts. For it to flourish and survive. A soap about healers. Being overrun by mobsters, serial killers and rapists. For 20 years is so STUPID.

 

Stupid, and immoral, offensive and (worst of all) BORING AF.

[Faulkner]

GH is giving us a low-budget, slapdash version of a traditional soap right now, with meek nods to both the Guza and Carlivati eras, and thus we’re getting a watered-down, Saturday-morning-sitcom version of mob life. GH kind of wants to have its cake and eat it too by making Sonny the “cuddly mob boss.” There’s no credible way for the show as it’s currently imagined to commit to the moral ambiguity that a mobster lead would require. So they play him as the great paterfamilias.

[ranger1rg]

4 hours ago, victoria foxton said:

Being overrun by mobsters, serial killers and rapists. For 20 years is so STUPID.

I co-sign onto that and with the other comments here about the mob element. It’ll work in a movie or a miniseries, but it doesn’t work long-term on a soap, especially when we’re supposed to love and appreciate the main mob guys.

 

Besides, I constantly ask myself who in the hell would live in that town? Your life would be a trip to either the hospital or the police station every month. Why would ANYONE go to the docks, even for a walk? Why would ANYONE go to a club or bar?

 

Instead, GH doubled down by adding Cyrus, THE worst criminal I’ve seen on a soap in many years. He’s not frightening enough, he’s not imperious, and the actor doesn’t have the gravitas to pull it off.

 

Then there’s the question of why a guy like Cyrus would choose Port Charles AT ALL to carry off these crimes — and why EVERYONE in town would go along with it.

[ironlion]

I like that so many of us here aren't feeling GH's criminal glorification.

 

These days so many shows want us to root for criminal villains.  In the case of shows like "Power", I often see fans demonizing law enforcement (or others who speak against the crimes) for trying to take down degenerate drug dealers. 

 

At the risk of sounding like the morality police-- I prefer when shows put the spotlight on criminals to analyze the effects that their lifestyles have rather than glorifying them. 

Edited November 29, 2020 by ironlion

[vetsoapfan]

9 hours ago, ironlion said:

I like that so many of us here aren't feeling GH's criminal glorification.

 

These days so many shows want us to root for criminal villains.  In the case of shows like "Power", I often see fans demonizing law enforcement (or others who speak against the crimes) for trying to take down degenerate drug dealers. 

 

At the risk of sounding like the morality police-- I prefer when shows put the spotlight on criminals to analyze the effects that their lifestyles have rather than glorifying them. 

 

ITA. To me, one of the most satisfying components of soaps used to be that they had a sense of morality, of right and wrong. It was very satisfying when the villains got their punishment in the end. Now the "good" characters are mocked, derided and ineffectual (or ignored altogether), while the most atrocious criminals are glorified and reap rewards, not punishment, for their crimes.

 

Bring back the morality police!

[titan1978]

By the time Tristan Rogers left during Monty’s second run,  I was really over Robert Scorpio.  I still loved Anna, but I didn’t even miss him being gone.

 

And I loved what Riche did with the show, focusing more on the human even if they kept some of the Monty adventure going.  And I liked Sonny.  But back then he was not the main lead.  He was the lead in his stories.  The huge shift started when he was paired with Carly.

 

When Robert returned during the contagion event, it was such a breath of fresh air.  That he didn’t care for Sonny at all was so welcome, because everyone left by that time either did defer to him or was now presented as being in the wrong (Q family) in the point of view of the stories.  And I realized that I did miss Robert, and he brought back a piece of what was missing for only a few years at that point.  It was that sense of right and wrong being off and recognized by a beloved character.  And it’s now been ages since then and still Sonny is the center.  Ugh.

[KMan101]

Sonny as the 'moral center' of the show, along with Carly, does NOT work. No matter how hard they try.

 

Some of the best stuff Sonny has had in years was when Michael dumped his sorry ass but Mumbles couldn't handle it. He also seemed to have a fit Sonny wasn't at the center of the show during "The Writer's" time on the show. Since then it's been The Sonny Show with him as some moral compass at the center of the show.

 

At least under Phelps and Guza he was trash. Still on way too much but at least he was trash. Though the narrative changed under them. The Q's were villified and practically laughed into non-existance and the hospital became a backdrop to the mob goings on.

Edited November 29, 2020 by KMan101

[AbcNbc247]

4 minutes ago, KMan101 said:

Some of the best stuff Sonny has had in years was when Michael dumped his sorry ass but Mumbles couldn't handle it.

That was ridiculous. I don't know how Mo didn't see how good that story could have been. We talk so much about Ron, but GH really was never the same after he left. 

Edited November 29, 2020 by AbcNbc247

[KMan101]

Labine, naturally, was Sonny's best writer. She also wrote Luke Spencer well despite what Geary's diva ass says. Not to mention the love letter to the character of Laura. God I miss Labine's GH. It became too heavy and the Q's became comic relief, but man ...

4 minutes ago, AbcNbc247 said:

That was ridiculous. I don't know how Mo didn't see that. We talk so much about Ron, but GH really was never the same after he left. 

 

It wasn't.

 

I think he had some decent ideas but it seemed to become 'here's a lot of people you love and want back but they aren't staying" (probably Frank) and instead here are pets I'm forced to write for so I'll rebel and make it terrible (LSD anyone?). LOL. It was such a let down. Lots of potential. He tried at first. 

[ironlion]

GH had some major improvements under Ron's tenure but it mellowed out after 2014ish. I didnt give the show too much attention up until Jason's return. There was some steam there but that too plateaued. 

 

Jason's character has been so boring since he came back. I'd like to see him and Sam broken up, he and Sonny in some sort of rift. Whatever can add some life to that orbit.

Edited November 29, 2020 by ironlion

[titan1978]

35 minutes ago, KMan101 said:

Labine, naturally, was Sonny's best writer. She also wrote Luke Spencer well despite what Geary's diva ass says. Not to mention the love letter to the character of Laura. God I miss Labine's GH. It became too heavy and the Q's became comic relief, but man ...

 

It wasn't.

 

I think he had some decent ideas but it seemed to become 'here's a lot of people you love and want back but they aren't staying" (probably Frank) and instead here are pets I'm forced to write for so I'll rebel and make it terrible (LSD anyone?). LOL. It was such a let down. Lots of potential. He tried at first. 

I absolutely agree that Labine wrote Luke well, I don’t care that Tony hated it.  He was the same Luke, just grown up and back down to earth.  He still was impulsive, and reckless, and I never felt that father of the year crap he always complained about.  Lucky seemed like the kid they would have had- Luke’s spunk and grit mixed with Laura’s empathy and loyalty.

 

I don’t think Claire did that well by Laura though.  Laura was also impulsive and liked danger.  And I get she had kids now and had changed, but she kind of became a cliche a little under Labine, especially towards the end of their run.  I did think they nailed a grown up Laura in the beginning of their run.  I think it was by the time they got to the Puerto Rico story she had become the little lady left behind all the time that I really noticed it, then her kicking him out after the shootout and their getting back together felt like why did we even break them up?
 

I thought the first year of Guza was an excellent period of time for Laura.  It was all about her for the first time in ages, and Luke was not the center of her stories.  First she had the murder of Damian Smith trial, then Lulu’s illness leading the the return of the Cassadines.  After that it was all about Luke or Lucky again until she started having those flashbacks in the attic that lead to her catatonic state.

[prefab1]

9 hours ago, ironlion said:

Jason's character has been so boring since he came back. I'd like to see him and Sam broken up, he and Sonny in some sort of rift. Whatever can add some life to that orbit.

Steve Burton is not a bad actor, but the writers do him no favors constantly putting him into scenes with Mumbles Benard and narcoleptic Kelly Monaco. JaSam might well be the worst supercouple I've ever seen on a soap, because he's so stolid and she's so low-energy, it's just depressing to watch them.

 

Steve Burton is actually best in comic scenes, where he's playing Jason as the straight man to a high-strung or manic character like Carly or Spinelli. Why they haven't paired him with an actress who can play off that dynamic--Lindsey Hartley comes to mind--is beyond me. It's probably a combination of giving in the JaSam fandom and the overall dour tone of the show. 

 

 

[carolineg]

9 hours ago, prefab1 said:

Steve Burton is not a bad actor, but the writers do him no favors constantly putting him into scenes with Mumbles Benard and narcoleptic Kelly Monaco. JaSam might well be the worst supercouple I've ever seen on a soap, because he's so stolid and she's so low-energy, it's just depressing to watch them.

 

Steve Burton is actually best in comic scenes, where he's playing Jason as the straight man to a high-strung or manic character like Carly or Spinelli. Why they haven't paired him with an actress who can play off that dynamic--Lindsey Hartley comes to mind--is beyond me. It's probably a combination of giving in the JaSam fandom and the overall dour tone of the show. 

 

 

I am not a big Jason fan, but Steve Burton isn't half bad.  I have said this before, but he generally has the ability to create chemistry with his female leads.  He does really well with characters like Brenda and Carly where he can play the straight man and voice of reason.  I loved him with Robin, but him and KeMo are boring.  I get that they are popular, but they literally have been devoid of any energy for about 10 years or so.  But I have never been a KeMo/Sam fan.  She's just so bland and I always see her as a Brenda rip off.

 

As for Sonny, I like MB/Sonny more than most.  I loved him in the 90's.  Labine really knew how to write Sonny as a grey character that was still likable.  We knew he wasn't the best guy but he had redeeming qualities (his caring for Stone, his love for Brenda).  He wasn't a hero, but he wasn't a villain either.  The problem is he is a hero now.  And honestly, him and Carly might be more boring than JaSam.   I know Mo has problems sparking with his female leads, but Carson might have anti-chemistry with each other.  Plus, MB's acting has just gotten worse.  It's crazy to watch 90's Sonny.  He doesn't mumble or stutter and he does really good work.  MB is extremely charismatic and charming and now I don't see that at all.

[Forever8]

13 minutes ago, carolineg said:

I am not a big Jason fan, but Steve Burton isn't half bad.  I have said this before, but he generally has the ability to create chemistry with his female leads.  He does really well with characters like Brenda and Carly where he can play the straight man and voice of reason.  I loved him with Robin, but him and KeMo are boring.  I get that they are popular, but they literally have been devoid of any energy for about 10 years or so.  But I have never been a KeMo/Sam fan.  She's just so bland and I always see her as a Brenda rip off.

 

As for Sonny, I like MB/Sonny more than most.  I loved him in the 90's.  Labine really knew how to write Sonny as a grey character that was still likable.  We knew he wasn't the best guy but he had redeeming qualities (his caring for Stone, his love for Brenda).  He wasn't a hero, but he wasn't a villain either.  The problem is he is a hero now.  And honestly, him and Carly might be more boring than JaSam.   I know Mo has problems sparking with his female leads, but Carson might have anti-chemistry with each other.  Plus, MB's acting has just gotten worse.  It's crazy to watch 90's Sonny.  He doesn't mumble or stutter and he does really good work.  MB is extremely charismatic and charming and now I don't see that at all.

They write Carson like they're the new Steve and Audrey Hardy. And I'm like no...