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And all because a bunch of folks in Michigan, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin got fed up with the HNIC leading us from behind. :(

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9 hours ago, Khan said:

 

Would you rather I had brought it back to, say, Springfield?

 

 

(The car, by the way, is America.)

 

I'll bring it back to Gabrielle (with Steve Holden being America, with the latter being spared at the last second):

 

 

This, OTOH, is me since Election Day:

 

 

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2 hours ago, JaneAusten said:

So there goes China. Now that we have Mr. let's go back to the 50's, they are now taking the lead on the one source that could create millions of jobs for those working class Americans. Clean Energy. China is investing 361 billion dollars into Clean Energy development which is expected to generate 13 million jobs for the Chinese. Way to go Trump as we revert back to coal and oil. I said it. China is the next world leader and super power and the US goes down the tubes. They are already the best educated. They are now the worlds leading innovator, taking over from the US. They have the intellectual capital, innovators, and yes military power. We waste so much time worrying about the Russians when they basically make nothing, are not innovative, and are going no where IMO.

 

http://www.forbes.com/sites/edfenergyexchange/2017/01/06/china-is-going-all-in-on-clean-energy-as-the-u-s-waffles-how-is-that-making-america-great-again/#7ab097ce663e

 

 

Hasn't China stagnated quite a bit in recent years in terms of economy? 

2 hours ago, Khan said:

And all because a bunch of folks in Michigan, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin got fed up with the HNIC leading us from behind. :(

 

Even if Trump hadn't won this wasn't likely to happen here, because Congress is made up of extreme right-wingers. Even when Democrats and Obama held all reins of power briefly, they had to be very cautious. Obama's environmental plans in recent years were all through executive order.

 

With that said, I can't pat China on the back for their brilliance when this is likely coming in part because they have no choice. 

 

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/asia-pacific/china-issues-350bn-anti-pollution-plan-as-smog-woes-mount-1.2926872

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8 hours ago, DRW50 said:

 

Hasn't China stagnated quite a bit in recent years in terms of economy? 

 

 

I've always hoped that China's potential would be tapped. It could really be good for the entire world.  They have the potential to make great strides in areas like healthcare and technology.  But yeah, I'm not too worried they are going to usurp the US, even though I'm not sure that would be the worst thing ever. Not only has their economy stagnated recently, but investors are hesitant to trust the numbers their government gives out in the first place.  Add to that a repressive government that is a human rights disaster. It's really a shame because China could truly be great.

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Chinese cities have some of the dirtiest air on God's green planet, although New Dehli, India is now running neck and neck in that category.

 

Part of the Chinese social contract that it had with its people was 'You work in the factories, be industrious, work hard to make lots of products and we vault your economic status into the middle class, even some will get wealthy as long as you don't question us and quell the human rights and democracy chatter'.

 

As with any group of people who begin to earn more money, are able to buy more things (including technology which lets them peer into the outside world, Great Firewalls, be damned), become better educated, if not by themselves, then through their children, there is the realization that the needs that must be met expand beyond the material. The desire for greater civil liberties also becomes a realization and grows.

Sometimes this manifests itself in ways that appear, on the surface to be material- the factory workers at FoxConn that make iPhones, etc demand better wages and better hours, more time off, etc. The workers who have discovered the art of mass passive resistance (work stoppages, work slowdowns, etc) can assist their goals--this also affects the GDP of China, which has appeared to slow down a bit as the economy, while still growing, now grows at a slower rate.

 

@DRW50 In regards to the Chinese economy stagnating, some of that is intentional. China has been forced to deal with its currency manipulation (a point of contention between their country and many other countries that China trades with) and that will affect GDP. As I mentioned above, Chinese workers were demanding higher salaries and better working conditions (including a more humane workday-shorter hours), so that's less productivity, less product being purchased by the likes of Apple, etc, less money going toward GDP. Even though workers may have a little more going into their pockets, many people in Asian countries tend to be savers, not spenders (contrasting with the U.S., which tends to do the opposite). Add to that, because Chinese workers are being paid more, Chinese factories must charge their clients more and in response, more of their clients have opted to move manufacturing to a "cheaper" country where salaries are still lower than China like Thailand or Vietnam, contributing to that lower economic output.

Another factor is that China is trying to balance out its economy by not relying so heavily on manufacturing and factor labor and incorporate more service industry into its economy. Economists realize that China cannot continue to rely solely on making cheap goods, especially as workers and consumers demand a higher standard. They are trying to diversify.

In response to this, President Xi has tried to institute "Chinese values", in an effort to steer Chinese workers away from materialism (that was part of that social contract). Also, probably in an effort to bring some missing money, Xi has gone on an 'anti-corruption' crusade, with mixed results, rooting out corruption- and possibly those who build their fortunes while hiding their money, sending it abroad to invest- which is money not being paid out in taxes.

It's kind of a multi-pronged reason why China's economy has slowed down (I would not yet say totally stagnated, but definitely not growing at nearly the clip it once did).

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Thanks. That's fascinating. I didn't know most of that. I think they are definitely moving forward in ways we aren't but it seems like we're only getting a small part of the picture. 

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I didn't mean to suggest China's motives were entirely altruistic but neither are the US's.. I think the fact that they have invested in things we now take for granted and have let suffer, things like education, an area this country used to be heads and tails ahead of everyone else, says it all. And rather than trying to discover why Asian's seem to be thriving in education while many western countries are faltering all goes back IMO to our own ignorance and arrogance and our need to point the finger and blame others without looking at ourselves and to where others outside of the US are making it work.

 

I'm not diminishing the US but much of what DramatistDreamer says is accurate. I have to believe China is salivating watching our new leadership take us backwards, as they can now take the lead role in the world when it comes to clean energy along with now being positioned to dominate the Asian trade market, since the TPP is essentially dead. But if their newfound economic progress leads to more freedoms and less repression, then we are really in danger. Particularly when you have people here who believe turning the clock back and giving the oligarchs more and more is progress.

 

But the biggest sign is this election. The whole "Make America Great Again" idea is more IMO about isolationism and a disinterest in all things outside of the US by Americans than anything, but the problem is that in todays world you can't be that.  And the fact is American dominance around the world for decades seems to make everyone else more sensitive to us and other world issues than we are about the rest of the world. American's ignorance about the rest of the world considering who we are is astounding to me.  

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I think China is likely scared as much as they're happy about Trump, because he can do anything at any time. 

 

One of the problems with the global economy is that many of those who spread the word about its values were extremely out of touch. They never understood that a large chunk of their voter base didn't see this incredible progress and didn't understand that this is down to many factors, many of which can't be changed. This isn't just an American problem - it's happening all over Europe. 

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Watching China struggle with modernity has always been interesting because I've been looking at it through a different keyhole - watching their film industry develop and wrestle with restrictions. They still have the strict SARFT censorship to deal with, but if a product has enough stars and enough money behind it, and stands to make enough box office, the standards have slowly gotten more and more lax.

 

They still have no problem burying the work of major filmmakers and celebrities who try to defy the censors, but many of them work within those boundaries like filmmakers used to do with the Hollywood Production Code - subverting it or cheating it through dialogue or suggestion. On other things, money talks - and standards shift. China has grown a materialist upper middle class which demands satisfaction and it is wrestling with how to handle it, because its twin gods are now not only ideology but money, the polar opposite.

Edited by Vee

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Having a good relationship with Russia is a good thing, not a bad thing. Only "stupid" people, or fools, would think that it is bad! We.....

 

 

have enough problems around the world without yet another one. When I am President, Russia will respect us far more than they do now and....

 

 

both countries will, perhaps, work together to solve some of the many great and pressing problems and issues of the WORLD!

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If the rumors are true, and Putin is, indeed, blackmailing our next president, then whatever he's holding over Trump's head must be damn juicy.

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