The Politics Thread

[Wendy]

As I said, I will vote Dem regardless of the nominee, but I still believe Elizabeth Warren can't win. Hope I'm wrong! Because I cannot take four more seconds of Trump, let alone another four years.

[DRW50]

 

Oprah's too smart to run. 

 

The problem with Bloomberg is he's too experienced in the ways that people hate. Buttigieg not being that experienced gets him some disdain and some support for being a fresh face. There's nothing fresh about Bloomberg. He's the symbol of a culture many despise. His arrival only strengthens Warren and Sanders. 

 

This makes me wonder even more if some of these billionaires have secret communications with Bernie and are fine with him getting the nomination as long as they stop Warren, who seems less likely to be wooed. 

 

The only thing that may stop them is that the Kentucky governor is not a very powerful office, and they will control every other statewide office. Bevin is also widely loathed. 

[DramatistDreamer]

 

Same.

[Khan]

I don't think it's JUST M4All that has 'em frantic.  A Warren presidency could potentially lead to companies such as FaceBook being anti-trusted within an inch of their lives (and profit margins).  That must cause the Zuckerbergs of our country to have night sweats.

[Juliajms]

Me too, of course. It doesn't matter to me that much who it is because I doubt very much will get done those first four years anyway.  At best the next President will have to scramble just to undo some of the damage.

 

I really cannot believe Michael Bloomberg is going to run. I've had it with these billionaires who think they are entitled to even more power.

[Vee]

I thought Warren had crippled herself nine months ago with the ancestry test crap. I was wrong, she bounced back very strong. I think she can win. I have a lot of love for Joe Biden but I think he's hopelessly out of touch with the moment now - preaching about sitting down at the table with the Republicans again. We're so far past that. This isn't 'hail fellow well met' bipartisan sport like the old days anymore. The only way to effect systemic change in the places we need it before total catastrophe is to work aggressively and fight back knowing the GOP wants to delegitimize and disempower us at every turn. They take Joe and others' eagerness for comity as a license to kill. It has to end. I think Warren can do that while remaining sensible and rational about the realities of working within our system. I would've loved Harris, but that's not going to happen. So that's where I'm at. YMMV.

[DRW50]

 

It feels like over the last week or two a lot of backlash has come her way on all sides. I think we're at the point where many in the party would rather support Trump than vote for her. But I'm not sure what other options there are at present, unless Harris has a comeback. Sadly, I'm starting to wonder if Bernie will end up benefiting from all the hostility toward Warren and slide into the nomination.

[Chris B]

I've always felt Bernie could never win in 2016 or 2020 and since Warren is similar to him in plans I wonder if it's the same with her. The biggest problem for Warren is that she can't fight. She was able to rise because Harris was completely knocked out with the Russian troll dump and media onslaught against her. That Harris is still running and rebounding shows great strength considering. While Harris has had to field off endless attacks (mostly false), Warren has had GLOWING media attention and almost no vetting. She did TWO LGBT forums and was never questioned on being a republican during the most difficult crisis's facing LGBT people. Now that they ARE starting to vet her she is falling apart. We saw on Breakfast Club she couldn't answer any questions about minorities or the Native American thing without getting tripped up. She has ALWAYS lost that war with Donald Trump. Then in the last debate Mayor Pete and Amy Klobuchar easily rattled her and now her Medicare for All plans has gotten her endless bad press.

 

My worry with Warren always has been how she will handle being the actual nominee who will be getting Hillary/Kamala style attacks from all sides. If she can't handle one on one confrontations, what makes yall think she can handle it from Russia, the media and republicans? Biden is another who will fall apart in this regard. I don't want Bloomberg or anybody else to run, but there is a reason people BTS are running scared. You have four press darling frontrunners who in reality are very flawed candidates. We need minorities and young voters mobilized and the top four won't do that.

[Vee]

I just didn't see her as 'falling apart' in most of those arenas. I think she's had stumbles on M4A of late, but that can be rectified. I also think she shrugged off the birth certificate thing over the last six months, which I didn't think she could do. And make no mistake: Not all of those attacks or panic are about sincere distress over simple electability. There are a lot of old guard in the party and donor class who will only ever feel comfortable with a centrist right-leaning moderate that leans into accommodating the framing of the parties dating back to the '80s, when Democrats had to constantly apologize for being Democrats and beg to curry favor with 'sensitive' conservatives. That's also a big part of the mainstream media framing on us, and it has to end.

 

I grew up with a mother who worked on the Hill for the Dems her whole career; before that she was a radical, and she grew and learned over decades. I am not a dreamer. I understand pragmatism. I think Obama did the best he could with some impossible situations and you will never hear me shít on Obamacare, which has been invaluable to many people. I also don't think we're anywhere near being ready for M4A; Warren has said as much in leaked conference audio intended to discredit her to the Bernie wing. But what we can do is work to improve that system and many others. It's Warren's unapologetic forcefulness on these issues that frightens and outrages the right-leaning media as well as a lot of the 'sensible' Dem donors. I know some people genuinely like her and fear she can't win; I've met them. I just disagree. But as to the rest of the hard push against her, that is engineered. From media to the rich, it's about keeping the party in its place. I think Warren speaks most of all to the larger base, not just irrational radicals or stodgy centrists, and does so in a plainspoken way. And I think she's a good fighter. Is she perfect, no, but she's the strongest we've got. That's just my take.

 

As for Bloomberg - don't make me laugh. I lived under that revenant's administration for years. He makes poor Joe look like the second coming of FDR. People begging him to come in just shows how badly the party needs more change. But in the end so much of this drama is typical primary bluster. When the rubber hits the road, whoever the candidate is most of these people will fall in line.

Edited November 8, 2019 by Vee

[DRW50]

 

Unfortunately I'm not sure of anyone in the running who can do that. The way this primary has been structured and the flaws of the candidates has suppressed so much voter enthusiasm - it's 2016 deja vu all over again. The best to hope for is the anti-Trump message is enough.

[JaneAusten]

I don't think this primary has been that unusual. You have to remember the media and social media environment magnifies everything tenfold. I am burnt out but then I am not 90% of Americans who are not really paying attention to the primaries.  When you see numbers like 80% of Iowa voters still have not decided, that says a lot. It's why I still think it's possible for Harris. Maybe a long shot, but I am still hoping.

 

2 issues IMO. I agree with Vee on Warren except for one thing. I don't think her political instincts are great. She got played into that DNA test. And while I think she proved people wrong in paying for M4ALL, some have said she was goaded into that.We'll see how she deals with being a frontrunner. What I will say about Warren, is she does believe in what she's selling and despite the DNA debacle, I find her authentic. Her biggest hurdle IMO like Sanders and Buttigieg is the black vote. I would say at this point not one top 4 candidate has demonstrated they can get Clinton's numbers there much less Obama's. Oddly I think Beto had that ability had he managed to succeed. I have heard folks talk about the MS Governors race and that Hood could not match Espy's black turnout numbers. Why? He waited until the election to reach out. How many of these folks actually have the ability to reach these voters other than Castro and maybe Harris(I discount some because she's a female). Now I am not African American and maybe those of you who know better than me can shed some light, but I don't think being anti Trump is good enough for that voting base. Maybe I'm wrong. 

 

The thing with Warren or even Sanders is that they have the anti establishment wave -  associated with them, where you have folks like Harris IMO who is the same IMO for different reasons and coming from a different place. I think the policies of both like taxing the rich in particular is very popular, equity in pay and the wealth  taxes popular. And we know that's why. I also think both are positioned to win over younger voters. But again not the black vote.

 

Time will tell.  After Trump I am not buying the electability argument for anyone.

Edited November 8, 2019 by JaneAusten

[DRW50]

I despise this man. 

 

 

[Roman]

none of them have taken anything from Obama's playbook. you can't give people someone to vote against....you must give them someone to vote FOR. I'm voting for Warren in the primaries, but the ultra-liberalism needs to stop IMPO, and she needs to come to the center naturally on some issues.

[DRW50]

I saw that Harris is getting a lot of praise for her appearance on Joe & Mika Are Garbage People. I'm starting to think maybe she can have a comeback soon.

[Khan]

 

I don't think you're wrong.  Look at Buttigieg, for instance.  Yes, in several, important ways, he is "anti-Trump."  But is he really FOR us (and by "us," of course, I'm talking about my fellow African-Americans)?  As much as I like the guy personally and don't believe him to be an out-and-out racist, his record when it comes to African-Americans is...not that great; and that, and NOT the fact that he's gay, is what has many of us concerned.

 

IMO, what seems to be falling on deaf ears on BOTH sides of the political aisle is that POC, and especially African-Americans, continue to bear the brunt of institutionalized racism in this country, in terms of jobs, incomes, housing, education, healthcare, and ESPECIALLY law enforcement.  At best, many in the political arena pay proverbial lip service to the idea of reforms.  At worst, they dismiss our concerns as over-inflated by the media and everywhere else.  (Yes, I'm looking at you, Bernie.)

 

I'm not saying Dems need to pander to POC, but I think they need to realize ASAP that we ARE the party's backbone, if not the country's as a whole; and that heeding our concerns and advice will go a long way toward reclaiming government from the GOP's grasps.

Edited November 8, 2019 by Khan