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One of my favorite Youtube channels has put up a fair amount of material from the incredibly toxic 1988 election, which did permanent damage to our political system. And much of it is fascinating to watch. This clip has some "man on the street" interviews with various Dukakis and Bush supporters, then goes into a panel where the usual "nothing is worse than usual" talking points are cut through somewhat by the wonderful Barbara Jordan. 

 

 

 

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7 minutes ago, DramatistDreamer said:

And I OOP!

 

Thank God. I just got into London tonight and was dreading trying come or go after Halloween (I'm heading to Rotterdam between the 2nd and 7th, then back to London). 

 

Already witnessed a fight between two old men over Brexit today, and I was dreading the border delays and seeing the infuriated Leavers trying to go back to their new homes in  Spain and wondering why they're no longer entitled to live there. 🙄

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15 hours ago, marceline said:

I'm curious about why Hillary chose to put Tulsi on blast now. Hillary was a Secretary of State. She's probably had receipts on Tulsi for years. I'm curious what prompted this because when it comes to national security she doesn't do anything on the spur of the moment.

 

Good point.  Like @DRW50 said, Hillary could be launching a preemptive strike of sorts against Tulsi, who is bound to go after whoever will be the eventual nominee.

 

I know Tulsi has said she won't seek a third-party run if she isn't the nominee, but something tells me not to believe her.  Mark Zuckerberg's Georgetown speech's already got me thinking 2020 will be 2016 all over again.

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7 minutes ago, beebs said:

Thank God. I just got into London tonight and was dreading trying come or go after Halloween (I'm heading to Rotterdam between the 2nd and 7th, then back to London). 

 

Already witnessed a fight between two old men over Brexit today, and I was dreading the border delays and seeing the infuriated Leavers trying to go back to their new homes in  Spain and wondering why they're no longer entitled to live there. 🙄

 

The twist-- Johnson didn't sign the letter!  Also he sent an additional letter stating that he believes a delay would be a big mistake.

As far as Johnson is concerned, he wants the U.K. to leave the E.U. by the end of the month, regardless of whether this means Great Britain crashes out with nothing to show for it. 

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1 minute ago, DramatistDreamer said:

As far as Johnson is concerned, he wants the U.K. to leave the E.U. by the end of the month, regardless of whether this means Great Britain crashes out with nothing to show for it. 

 

I wonder how the U.K., and especially the Parliament, would feel if they DID leave the E.U. without a deal and, as expected, everything is thrown immediately into chaos?  How would Parliament respond?  Because, let's not forget, the U.K. has a real history of beheading leaders they didn't like, lol.

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28 minutes ago, Khan said:

 

I wonder how the U.K., and especially the Parliament, would feel if they DID leave the E.U. without a deal and, as expected, everything is thrown immediately into chaos?  How would Parliament respond?  Because, let's not forget, the U.K. has a real history of beheading leaders they didn't like, lol.

 

These are truly uncharted waters, so the situation or any ending resulting from the decision seems completely unpredictable at the moment.  One thing seems certain--lawmakers will be seeking to lay blame at someone's feet for this, if chaos should ensue.

 

The E.U. did something very clever, perhaps more for self-preservation but they have been fairly patient and accommodating throughout this entire process, because they don't want any measure of blame if/when sh*t hits the fan for the U.K. So, even as the E.U. has been firm on the rules, they also have taken every meeting, held tireless hours of negotiations and approved extensions requests from the U.K. over the past few years. 

 

As I posted up-thread though, the E.U. wants the U.K. to "sh*t, or get off the pot" at this point.  I think the E.U. is girding for the pain of a "No Deal Brexit"  and just wants to be done with Great Britain.

 

If Boris Johnson flops this (which there is a higher than average probability that this will happen), there is likely to be a general election for a new occupant for his current position.  Remember Johnson was selected by his party but not by the British voting public, many of whom are jonesing for an opportunity to chuck Johnson out.

 

Another possibility, if things go badly, is Scottish independence won't seem like such a far-fetched possibility anymore.  People will no longer scoff at another referendum to vote on independence.

 

Also, even though there was a negotiated agreement for the 'Irish backstop', if there's no agreement in place for that...well, let's just not get into that because...Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland truly do have a history of violent conflict, that I seriously doubt anyone wants to revisit.

Edited by DramatistDreamer

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17 minutes ago, DramatistDreamer said:

Also, even though there was a negotiated agreement for the 'Irish backstop', if there's no agreement in place for that...well, let's just not get into that because...Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland truly do have a history of violent conflict, that I seriously doubt anyone wants to revisit.

 

Yeah, that's the part about Brexit that has me concerned the most.  I fear what might happen with Ireland in the event of a "No Deal Brexit."  In fact, anyone who knows anything at all about "The Troubles" should be afraid.

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28 minutes ago, Khan said:

 

Yeah, that's the part about Brexit that has me concerned the most.  I fear what might happen with Ireland in the event of a "No Deal Brexit."  In fact, anyone who knows anything at all about "The Troubles" should be afraid.

 

All of it is truly concerning.  The possibility of food and medicine shortages.  And from someone who lived in London for nearly five months, I can tell you that Great Britain imports a great deal of its food and as Bob Marley once sang "A hungry man is an angry man". 

I don't know if it would ever reach "The Troubles" level since Ireland seems more prosperous now than it was then and back then it was political, not financial.  When it's financial, many of the Irish simply move/migrate, when it's political, it's more about taking a stand.  Although, I imagine it wouldn't be too pleasant to for citizens of the Republic of Ireland to look across the border and see that their E.U. member affiliated neighbor, Northern Ireland living far more prosperously than they are, which is a real possibility in a post Brexit crash.

 

Scotland has oil and gas, has a lower unemployment rate than the rest of Great Britain, so it seems as though the U.K. might need Scotland more than Scotland would need the U.K.

 

Where a United Kingdom is concerned, the possibility of any of these things coming to pass just seems like a bad outcome for Great Britain and England especially.

 

 

Then again, systems like the NHS are already coming apart since so many foreign doctors, nurses and medical professionals have already left the U.K. and many of those vacancies are still unfilled. 

Edited by DramatistDreamer

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Johnson still has the backing of most of the UK's most powerful papers, and has some type of common man appeal that eludes me. The other parties are as broken and divided as the Tories are, with Corbyn extremely unpopular and the Liberal Democrats still not trusted because of their past coalition government with the Tories. If there's an election, there's a pretty strong chance Johnson will win. The best to hope for is he will continue to trip over his own arrogance to the point where they get another divided government and the left-wing parties can cobble something together. That would depend on Labour and the Lib Dems ceasing their cold war. 

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5 hours ago, DRW50 said:

Johnson still has the backing of most of the UK's most powerful papers, and has some type of common man appeal that eludes me. The other parties are as broken and divided as the Tories are, with Corbyn extremely unpopular and the Liberal Democrats still not trusted because of their past coalition government with the Tories. If there's an election, there's a pretty strong chance Johnson will win. The best to hope for is he will continue to trip over his own arrogance to the point where they get another divided government and the left-wing parties can cobble something together. That would depend on Labour and the Lib Dems ceasing their cold war. 

 

In England, but the U.K. is made up of more than just the England-based tabloids.  The coverage has been far from positive in Scotland, Ireland and Wales.  Also, tabloids in the U.K. no longer have the gravitas that they once had twenty years ago, at least not since the phone-hacking scandals.  The U.K. isn't comparable to the U.S. where people digest everything the papers spew out and think about it only a year after the fact. 

 

 

This tells you all you need to know about the U.S., which is why most of my family would never live here.

 

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41 minutes ago, DramatistDreamer said:

 

In England, but the U.K. is made up of more than just the England-based tabloids.  The coverage has been far from positive in Scotland, Ireland and Wales.  Also, tabloids in the U.K. no longer have the gravitas that they once had twenty years ago, at least not since the phone-hacking scandals.  The U.K. isn't comparable to the U.S. where people digest everything the papers spew out and think about it only a year after the fact. 

 

Until Brexit I would have agreed. Not sure now. Scotland also seems to have had hatred for the Tories for generations but it doesn't keep them out of power - I guess they will likely be leaving the UK within the next 4-5 years anyway, unless something changes. 

 

I wasn't trying to compare the UK to the US, if that was how my post came across. 

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34 minutes ago, DRW50 said:

 

Until Brexit I would have agreed. Not sure now. Scotland also seems to have had hatred for the Tories for generations but it doesn't keep them out of power - I guess they will likely be leaving the UK within the next 4-5 years anyway, unless something changes. 

 

I wasn't trying to compare the UK to the US, if that was how my post came across. 

 

No, I didn't take the comparison to be coming from you, I was kind of riffing off the idea.

 

It's going to be interesting to see where all of these countries land after in a post-Brexit landscape.  Will there be a United Kingdom after all?  It's not like England hasn't lost territory before.

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