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8 minutes ago, Vee said:

There's progressives - who have always been a party of the party - and then there's the Bernie wing, which is very different. I consider myself a progressive.

 

Well, I apologize, @Vee, for over-generalizing progressives and for lumping them in with "Bernie's Kids."  I just feel like, where the Democratic Party is concerned these days, the centrists are getting a very bad rap simply for being pragmatic.

Edited by Khan

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They are. But that ideological conflict doesn't change anything about the facts on the ground for me. I think Warren is the one, and I think she's going to win. I think Joe can, but I also think he is weaker by the day and he wouldn't have been my choice for the nominee either way. It was always going to be Warren or Harris for me.

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15 minutes ago, Vee said:

There's progressives - who have always been a part of the party - and then there's the Bernie wing, which is very different. I consider myself a progressive.

 

You and I are going to disagree on this. The Bernie wing, as you put it, has completely destroyed the label "progressive." It's kind of like what the Tea Party did to the terms "patriot" and "freedom." The state of modern progressivism is something I want nothing to do with.

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That's fine. I'm not letting those idiots take the word from me.

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The only candidate out of the top tier that I could see losing is Sanders and that is for a variety of reasons. Issues do matter a lot, but the general election is going to come down to rationality, temperament and pragmatism none of which Trump has. The ticket will end up being balanced out ideologically.

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Wasn't the White House just touting their problem-solving "deal" earlier today? Trump administration stays losing on foreign policy and diplomacy. Especially since they have no clue about either.

 

 

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I'll vote for ANY Dem at this point. That said? I don't really know if Elizabeth Warren really can win. Why?

 

Because the free-for-all known as the Dem debate did highlight a problem: Warren has all of these grand ideas, including Medicare For All. But she still gets defensive and/or evades when asked just how it will be paid for. The average voter does not want to go too far left or right. And I fear Warren is too far left. And with that plan for MFA NOT allowing for a private insurance option?

 

You'll see voters saying thanks, but no thanks.

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I'm not disputing that Warren has a weakness on that question and needs to clear it up. But I think her ideas and plans have much more substance than Sanders'.

 

Meanwhile, in kamikaze news:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And now:

 

 

 

 

 

 

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39 minutes ago, Wendy said:

I'll vote for ANY Dem at this point. That said? I don't really know if Elizabeth Warren really can win. Why?

 

Because the free-for-all known as the Dem debate did highlight a problem: Warren has all of these grand ideas, including Medicare For All. But she still gets defensive and/or evades when asked just how it will be paid for. The average voter does not want to go too far left or right. And I fear Warren is too far left. And with that plan for MFA NOT allowing for a private insurance option?

 

You'll see voters saying thanks, but no thanks.

 

It's more than that. If Warren is our nominee we lose black enthusiasm in the south *and* the EC states we need to win. There will be a perfect storm of forces committed to defeating her including: the Russians, Wall Street Democrats, and Facebook. And yes, I know that's why progressives want her to be the nominee but that's before you get to her promise to ban fracking on day one (say goodbye to MI, PA, & OH) and get rid of private insurance which will destroy us in the electoral college. On top of that, it would screw downballot candidates in swing and purple states and we would lose most of the House districts, governorships, and statehouses we won in 2018.

 

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The debate brought back some of the doubts I have about Warren. The main problem is I don't know who would get the coalition to beat Trump. I just can't trust Biden at this point in time - he seems so frail, and not in the way that Hillary was attacked for being frail. 

 

Beyond Warren, Harris is the candidate I would have wanted to support, and she still has a chance of course, but she seems to be far back in the pack, alongside Buttigieg. She also seems to have the same problems attracting a large group that Biden and Warren have.

 

Then you have the people who have zero chance and are just there because they don't want to admit it, dragging everyone else down. 

 

I almost want to agree with @Khan about letting Bernie run so his groupies can have their moment in the sun, but they make me so sick, and I don't really trust Gleen Greenwald or David Sirota any more than I trust the Trump pushers.  

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Biden may not be optimal, but if he can choose a promising VP? I can see that helping him. Warren, I already said my problems about her. Bernie? Please God, no.

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9 minutes ago, Wendy said:

Biden may not be optimal, but if he can choose a promising VP? I can see that helping him. Warren, I already said my problems about her. Bernie? Please God, no.

 

I'm mostly concerned at how much Biden even struggles to speak now. I'm really worried about him - and not in a concern troll way. 

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