Anyone who says Kaine won is just shilling for the democratic ticket.   It's why MSNBC's Lawrence O'Donnell is to be ignored because he is just the liberal version of a FOX commentator.   About Kaine:  any points he deserves for speaking truthfully about what Trump said is erased by his non-stop interrupting.   Maybe he was nervous.   Pence, despite having the ridiculous job of lying all the war through saying Trump didn't say all the things he said, kept his composure,    Kaine looked like he had one coffee too many.

 

it's not hard to lie when you're a sociopath, and Pence is a sociopath. 

 

I haven't seen that many say Kaine won. I've seen more trying to hype Pence as their latest daddy figure. 

Well all the press is at least calling Pence a liar.  And even Chris Matthews acknowledged that this was more about Pence 2020 than Trump 2016 because he knows Trumps going to lose. I thought Kaine did what the campaign wanted which was to attack Trump. I never expected to hear any policy discussion. There hasn't been much yet anywhere.

Anyone who says Kaine won is just shilling for the democratic ticket.   It's why MSNBC's Lawrence O'Donnell is to be ignored because he is just the liberal version of a FOX commentator.   About Kaine:  any points he deserves for speaking truthfully about what Trump said is erased by his non-stop interrupting.   Maybe he was nervous.   Pence, despite having the ridiculous job of lying all the war through saying Trump didn't say all the things he said, kept his composure,    Kaine looked like he had one coffee too many.

Funny you say that bc I thought he clearly won. Pence was awful; worse than Donald. Kaine annihilated him and really brought out light just how flawed the Trump ticket is

When I mean boring, I mean this debate was in no way illuminating. It didn't offer any new insights that we hadn't already grasped from the Presidential debate. I'm not looking for gaffes or 'gotcha' moments, nor am I looking for sniping. What I was looking for, this debate simply did not offer and that was new insight into either the Presidential candidates themselves from their running mates (which, at this point was going to be near impossible, given the saturation of think pieces) or some new insight on the VP candidates on their actual take on policy- this debate offered none of that.

 

For example, no one asked about the water contamination in many of our American cities. Pence has a soil contamination issue unfolding in Indiana and that wasn't asked. In fact, no one asks about the lower income people of this country in any of these debates thus far.

 

I heard some people complaining that there was no word on LGBTQ issues.

 

This is my opinion but this debate was barren of insight. I didn't see it addressing any issues, just VPs parroting their running mates views, and in Pence's case, dodging them.

Apologies. I'm frustrated with the lack of seriousness in this election and in the commentary I'm reading this morning. I didn't mean to take it out on you. 

No problem @marceline, I didn't mean to come off as cavalier but I guess early in the morning, my initial post may have come off dismissive, which was not my intent.

 

Having sat up and watched this debate, I was hoping that there would be more probing questions and responses. I think I have to just accept the fact that we're at this point in our politics where debates will resemble verbal jousting or one candidate constantly making funny faces while the other person speaks. The last couple of President election cycles, it seemed as if the conversations and topics were so much more substantive, now  'looking President' seems to have taken on more importance than actually answering questions about policy.

I definitely feel your frustration. I know that the MSM definitely has a large role in framing the context and circumstances in which these debates are taking place but I also wonder what the general public's role is in all this- in terms of the tone?

 

In other political news, Governor of NY Andrew Cuomo is now being tangentially implicated in the Bridgegate Scandal.

 

Cuomo ordered halt to Bridgegate probe after talks with Christie, former Port Authority executive says

 

One of Christie's former aides had already accused Christie of knowing about the bridge closing, albeit after the fact and doing nothing about it.  Between this and the possibility of a gas hike in NJ, I think Christie is done once his term is up.

Edited October 5, 20169 yr by DramatistDreamer

In other VP news Libertarians Bill Weld seems to have come to his senses.

VP candidate Bill Weld told the Boston Globe that he plans to focus exclusively on attacking Donald Trump for the remainder of the campaign — essentially admitting that running mate Gary Johnson can not become president.

 

As for the debate, I haven't seen it yet but I really wish people would stop complaining that something that actually addresses issues is "boring." Politics is not a reality show and thinking of it as such is part of the reason we're in this insane position.

Agreed. The last time a VP debate was Must-See-TV, we had this hot mess: 

I'm fine with a ho-hum debate. 

No problem @marceline, I didn't mean to come off as cavalier but I guess early in the morning, my initial post may have come off dismissive, which was not my intent.

 

Having sat up and watched this debate, I was hoping that there would be more probing questions and responses. I think I have to just accept the fact that we're at this point in our politics where debates will resemble verbal jousting or one candidate constantly making funny faces while the other person speaks. The last couple of President election cycles, it seemed as if the conversations and topics were so much more substantive, now  'looking President' seems to have taken on more importance than actually answering questions about policy.

I definitely feel your frustration. I know that the MSM definitely has a large role in framing the context and circumstances in which these debates are taking place but I also wonder what the general public's role is in all this- in terms of the tone?

 

In other political news, Governor of NY Andrew Cuomo is now being tangentially implicated in the Bridgegate Scandal.

 

Cuomo ordered halt to Bridgegate probe after talks with Christie, former Port Authority executive says

 

One of Christie's former aides had already accused Christie of knowing about the bridge closing, albeit after the fact and doing nothing about it.  Between this and the possibility of a gas hike in NJ, I think Christie is done once his term is up.

I was looking for the same policy discussions. a chance for Pence to answer for his hatred of gay & Lesbian Americans and the legislation and money lost by his decisions. to see if Pence can say anything concrete about healthcare, social security, rogue police, etc. nothing....because the moderator was horrible and it devolved into a shouting match. 

LMAO I read Pence threw Chump under the bus, is that true?

In other VP news Libertarians Bill Weld seems to have come to his senses.

VP candidate Bill Weld told the Boston Globe that he plans to focus exclusively on attacking Donald Trump for the remainder of the campaign — essentially admitting that running mate Gary Johnson can not become president.

 

As for the debate, I haven't seen it yet but I really wish people would stop complaining that something that actually addresses issues is "boring." Politics is not a reality show and thinking of it as such is part of the reason we're in this insane position.

 

Agreed. The last time a VP debate was Must-See-TV, we had this hot mess: 

I'm fine with a ho-hum debate. 

 

I thought the Joe Biden, Paul Ryan debate had a mix of actual substantive issues but of course, Joe Biden can't help but be fairly entertaining at times. I erased the Palin/Biden debate from my memory. It wasn't substantive. Joe was too busy trying to be a gentleman and held back and Sarah Palin was too busy winking or whatever she was doing. Given Palin's disastrous interview with Katie Couric, I had very low expectations, not so with this debate since neither Kaine nor Pence could ever be considered as new to the Beltway.

 

For me, Kaine and Pence didn't offer anything substantive but that's simply my opinion. I will say this, I saw a lot of reports wondering whether Kaine was 'born to be mild' or whether he could be the 'attack dog' some in the press claimed he needed to be (I disagree with them, Hillary doesn't need an attack dog). Kaine showed that he has no problem going on the offensive so maybe the jokes about him being someone's doting, overeager stepdad should stop now.

I'm guessing Conservatives felt relieve because Pence should them that there was at least one sane person on the Republican ticket. One so-called undecided voter (are there really any undecided voters at this point??) pointed out that although he appeared stable, Pence is not the one running for President though.

I was looking for the same policy discussions. a chance for Pence to answer for his hatred of gay & Lesbian Americans and the legislation and money lost by his decisions. to see if Pence can say anything concrete about healthcare, social security, rogue police, etc. nothing....because the moderator was horrible and it devolved into a shouting match. 

 

 

At this point, I'm not sure if any moderator can keep the debate flowing on an even keel.  Maybe the ones that have been selected this time around are too close to MSM, that already have their narratives that they want to continue.

Maybe choosing a journalist that is not connected to the American MSM? Are there any U.S./American journalists at the BBC or CBC? Someone from the U.S. who is well versed in U.S. politics but not too intimate with all the news outlets here?

Edited October 5, 20169 yr by DramatistDreamer

 

The Koch brothers love him. That should tell anyone all they should know. The state of Indiana wants him gone. His smooth demeanor hasn't fooled anyone including those women forced by law to have funerals for their fetuses. And Indiana like Wisconsin is at the very bottom now with job creation. Wisconsin used to be in the top 10.

 

And yet they are trying to sell this guy as the sane one. Honestly, this is so offensive and completely f*cked up. As if the government has any right to tell women who have had miscarriages how to grieve or women that have had abortions that they have to jump through these hoops. It's just sick.

At this point, I'm not sure if any moderator can keep the debate flowing on an even keel.  Maybe the ones that have been selected this time around are too close to MSM, that already have their narratives that they want to continue.

Maybe choosing a journalist that is not connected to the American MSM? Are there any U.S./American journalists at the BBC or CBC? Someone from the U.S. who is well versed in U.S. politics but not too intimate with all the news outlets here?

 

 

I think that moderating is an impossible job when you're dealing with people like Trump and Pence who lie without reservation. To have to fact check someone like these two would mean that for every answer they give you'd have to spend several minutes explaining why it's false which means we'd hear more from the moderator than the candidates. For all the shade Lester holt got, I think he did a pretty good job. He tried to fact check Donald on stop and frisk and Trump just kept repeating his lies about how murders are up. At this point the conflict is between facts and letting the candidate speak. That was something I thought Hillary did well. She didn't ask Holt to fact check but she did invite fact checkers to weigh in after. Unless moderators are given the ability to cut microphones there's no way to moderate a debate with a pathological liar.

Kaine won on substance but lost on style. He came across very hyped up on coffee.

Apparently this was in one of Powell's emails... 

 

I would rather not have to vote for her, although she is a friend I respect. A 70-year-old person with a long track record, unbridled ambition, greedy, not transformational, with a husband still d**king bimbos at home.

Apparently this was in one of Powell's emails... 

 

I would rather not have to vote for her, although she is a friend I respect. A 70-year-old person with a long track record, unbridled ambition, greedy, not transformational, with a husband still d**king bimbos at home.

If that's how he talks about a friend he respects, I'd hate to see what he says about someone he doesn't like.

 

Any bimbos being dicked by Bill are most likely well-paid escorts. I don't mind. In fact I hope that Hillary has a similar stable of options available to her. She deserves the stress relief.

Apparently this was in one of Powell's emails... 

 

I would rather not have to vote for her, although she is a friend I respect. A 70-year-old person with a long track record, unbridled ambition, greedy, not transformational, with a husband still d**king bimbos at home.

He's not exactly breaking any news with this, so I don't think it will hurt her. I also see Hillary as extraordinarily ambitious. She wouldn't be where is if she weren't. I don't see anything wrong with that. I'll also agree that she's not going to transform anything, but with Trump running, the status quo never looked so good.

 

 As for Bill, well, if he couldn't control his impulses when he was literally in the oval office, there is no reason to think he's doing so now. Again, I don't much care under the circumstances.  I expect HRC to play blocker against the republicans, more than I expect her to actually get a lot of her own agenda accomplished. If scandal comes along that shouldn't stop her from blocking the way it derailed Bill Clinton's time in office. At least, that's my hope.

Bill Clinton is a frail man. If he wasn't at the time of those e-mails, he is now. I imagine many still see him as the chuckling fat pervert of '90s sketch comedy. He's clearly not anymore. If he is whoring it up, I doubt he's doing it very often, and I imagine we would have heard more about it by now if there was more proof. I saw some trying to make hay out of some guy claiming he's Clinton's son - to me that type of stuff is usually about as believable as those claims from some random years ago that he was Obama's gay lover. For years I still heard people insisting Obama was gay because of that. Silly stuff. 

 

Speaking of Bill, I read some article today blasting Hillary for picking Kaine because she already had an ideal surrogate and campaigner in her husband, so she needed to choose a dynamic voice for Bernie supporters and to build the party up. It just reminded me again about the past glories of Bill compared to what he actually is. He wants his wife to win and he's still effective with a number of voters, but he can't be what he was, and her campaign seems to realize that. 

Edited October 6, 20169 yr by DRW50