Santa Barbara Discussion Thread

[Marissa Gallant]

I tend to not count Bochner since he never appeared. I have to actively remind myself about him because I didn't pay much attention to magazines at that age. (Aside from Dynamite) And I always remember Bateman is the third on screen CC. It's Richman and Burke that scramble themselves in my head. Very different, but they still do. I liked Richman, he was just a little stiff. Burke was dreadful. I'll personally never forgive all of the people who allowed the t-shirt tucked into the WAAAYY too tiny shorts to ever darken television sets across the country.

Yes to Santana using CC. But a smart woman wouldn't fall for a man that put her through all of that. Just ICK

[Sapounopera]

The CC / Santana / Mason triangle could have lasted years and years with Brandon, Gina and Sophia being part of the mix.

I liked Charles Bateman as CC, he had a Blake Carrington quality.

I loved the show from 1984 to 1987. All these rapes started ruining it for me, along with Caroline's death for some reason and the endless Cruz & Eden drama. 

[Liberty City]

Burke was a horrible miscast. It's clear they looked at his résumé, and said: "Yeah he's done a lot of work. Let's hire him!" As for Richman, I did like his CC, and he appeared to have a good connection with the original family of children. Bateman is the lost puzzle piece; I can see why they replaced him, but I don't necessarily agree with the decision. I loved his CC. I really did, and it's a shame they didn't give him more of a running chance in the role. Part of me wishes they had brought him back in as Grant Capwell, CC's brother.

And that's the problem: the Dobsons had the makings of a smart woman that was continuously dumbed down for the men in her lives.

^^ This this this! Knowing what I know about Santa Barbara, the fact the Brandon storyline was seemingly dropped troubles me. That was a major selling point at the time of the soap's premiere, so for the character to ultimately become absent by the end is disappointing. And yes, Bateman had that Blake Carrington vibe to him!

[Contessa Donatella]

I keep thinking about this line. This may take awhile.

[Contessa Donatella]

@CatYour words moved me, very evocative. They remind me of the way I feel about the good good good part of SB! Plus I was just plain in love with so many of the characters - Mason, Kelly, Bunny, Sonny, Kieth, Gina, Santana, Brandon, Eden, Cruz, Julia, Sophia, Cain, Tory, Augusta, Lionel, Ted, Hayley, Jade, ...

Now, to what I came here to post:

I was just listening to a YT interview with Justin Deas, who seems to be feeling good, and did you know that he rarely auditioned for roles?!! Betty Rae called him & cast him & she had seen him in something. And, at one show he once did a 90 page monologue?!! It was a stunt! Before his soap career, which he accidentally fell into basically, he mostly did theatre, especially lots & lots of Shakespeare. He was at Juilliard. His family moved a lot when he was growing up. He went to 11 different public schools. I think I went to 12. Made a joke that Deas was Margaret's "alternate" name & told how she hated him when she first met him when they put them together at ATWT. He seemed to think that she thought he was pretty much an idiot. Said he wasn't good at anything & his mother was worried about him & began taking him to plays. He became fascinated at the idea that you could "be somebody else, not yourself." (This reminds me of the recently departed Anne Heche who loved so to act because it was the only way she could not be herself.) At one point his life goal was to appear onstage at the Guthrie. He managed that a long time ago! He was in one show & the Lead told him he was doomed to always be just a Supporting Actor, so he quit. ATWT was just happenstance & completely because of Betty Rea. She told him he was an amazing actor & she spoiled him terribly. You could tell he loved that. Margaret, though, in the same time period, said, Great? No, you're average. That cracks me up! He talked complimentary about Larry Bryggman, Scott Bryce, JFP who he thought brought him on SB and was behind the 90 page thing which started out to have an episode where he as Keith did all of the lines for the whole show. They wouldn't let them do it, though. Fiona Hutchison, Marj Dusay, Ron Raines. Apparently near the end of Marj's life her 4 leading men from GL took turns going to see her. I love that! She was pretty sick for a pretty long time. He said each of his GL leading ladies was fabulous! Marj got onto him because he wouldn't watch the show because he didn't want to see himself. She asked him how he was ever going to improve if he didn't watch himself. That made sense to him & she scored a point! He said he wasn't surprised that GL came to an end because he knew how expensive it was to produce a soap every day compared to, for example, reality programming. He said he always felt like they made a movie every day. (Tony Geary said that about GH!)

 

[TEdgeofNight]

Putting sentences in bold doesn't make them true. Sticking to facts, Justin Deas was clearly talking about his time as Buzz on GL, not SB, where they wanted to give him all of the dialogue in 1 episode. The idea was rejected so they instead gave him most of the dialogue for an episode during the 5th Street fire story on GL, which turned out to be about 90 pages of dialogue. Justin was not given 90 pages of dialogue as Keith on SB. 

[Sapounopera]

This Justin Deas thing has been posted in multiple threads today.  Thank God he didn't work on more soaps Tonka.

[NothinButAttitude]

I don't know why but I find myself watching the SB earthquake on an annual basis. Much like I watch Quint & Nola's love story on GL or the few episodes of Dream's End on ATWT that are available too. 

 

What I don't get is why didn't SB go ahead and kill off all the Perkins? Amy and Joe within a year anyway. 

[j swift]

In hindsight I don't understand why Joe was released from prison after five years?

He was convicted of murder, and he wasn't cleared until the false confession after the earthquake, and later Cruz proves his innocence, after his death.  So, why did he get out on parole?  Five years seems like a very short sentence, especially given CC's influence, one would think that Joe would not be released so quickly.

[NothinButAttitude]

The whole Channing arc makes no sense to me when I watch the first year episodes. Personally, I think Channing would've been more useful had he been alive instead of dead. Sophia being "dead" was already enough conflict for the Capwells. I think it would've been juicer had Channing been alive and stringing Santana along while having a secret lover offscreen that the audience knew about named Lindsay. Then have Mason unveil that Lindsay is really a man and that causes Channing to flee town. Santana, CC, and the remainder of Capwells would learn overtime. And then like it occurred on the show, CC would have a heart attack and fall into a coma. 

 

With Joe, they could've simply just had CC disapprove of the relationship as Joe was poor in his eyes. CC could've had Mason stage a crime and frame Joe (which they did do), which resulted in him going to prison. And then continued on with Kelly falling for Peter until Joe was released. 

 

If I could sit with the Dobson, I would want to know what their long term plans were with the Perkins b/c (again), they were killed (John, Amy, Joe) or written off (Jade, Marissa) about 2 years in. Same with Danny too. And what were their intentions with the Lockridges too? 

[dc11786]

Joe Perkins was probably not convicted of murder, but rather voluntary manslaughter, which in California could have been a six year sentence. I imagine Joe was a model prisoner so maybe he got out a year early for good behavior. Though if this was the case, that should have been a bigger argument between C.C. and Mason that Mason wasn't able to get the murder charges to stick. Voluntary manslaughter would make a bit more sense though because the gun used to kill Channing was C.C.'s so if the argument was Joe arranged a meeting with Channing, it's unlikely he planned to kill him as he didn't bring the weapon to the scene of the crime. 

The Perkins parents were miscast. In concept, John and Marissa had interesting layers that had potential to provide rich, dynamic elements to the canvas the Dobsons created. Valorie Armstrong and Robert Alan Browne just were the actors to do that. John Perkins came off as a Marlon Brando-type. One of the few planned stories in the bible for the Perkins family that wasn't used (nor developed beyond an idea) was for John to become involved with graft while working as a union organizer based on a similar situation in "On the Waterfront."

During the earthquake, I would have just destroyed the Perkins home and then reveal that the insurance company had quietly dropped the Perkins policy after the attack on the house when Joe returned home. This would give further fuel to the fire between John and Joe. This would have left the Perkins homeless. C.C. would have seen this as an opportunity to drive the Perkins out of Santa Barbara and would have terminated John from his job with Capwell Enterprises. Again, John would blame Joe. The unexpected hero for the family would be Jade, who would move the family into the motel the kids had bought. I would have had the Perkins operate the motel for a bit and struck up a surprising alliance between John Perkins and Paula Kelly's Ginger Jones who would have kept her girls at the motel as well as utilizing the rooms for their work. 

Joe shouldn't have been killed off. After Peter died, I would have had Kelly learn that she was pregnant, possibly with Peter's child. She would consider her options, but Joe would find out and before things could be talked out the entire Perkins family would be celebrating the impending arrival of their first born while the Capwells had more of a mixed reaction. Kelly would confess the truth to Joe, who would initially be supportive, but later would struggle with the fear that this child he raised would be just like Peter. I would have had Joe talked things over with Brick Wallace given the circumstances of Brick's paternity. 

Joe needed a more stable profession. Given his handyman work, I would have probably had him working construction, which would have offered him the opportunity to help rebuild the family home. I think Joe's boss would have been some old love interest of Marissa's who had lost out on Marissa to John. This relationship between Joe and his boss would escalate tension between John and Joe especially if John had ended up sleeping with Augusta rather than her brief fling with the mattress salesman and Marissa decided she wanted to give her old flame a chance. 

Kelly and Joe would have continued to prepare for the baby while also worried that the child may in fact be Peter's and Kelly's fears about how Joe would handle this. Also, Joe being cleared of Channing's murder should have lead to an attempted reconcilliation between Joe and the Capwells and Joe and his father which would only escalate when Julia Wainwright, with some urging from Lionel and Augusta, convinced Joe to file a civil suit against the Capwells for railroading him into a convinction for Channing's death leading to his wrongful imprisonment. 

During the civil case, Mason continues to suggest that C.C. just payout but pompous C.C. is goaded by Lionel and Augusta into continuing the case because a payout would suggest that C.C. was guilty. Kelly, now very late in her pregnancy, would return home because she feels that Joe has become consumed by his desire to make her family pay, while Joe cannot understand how Kelly can still defend them. At home, Kelly starts having "Rosemary's Baby" esque dreams including one in which her blond haired son is covered in blood and carrying a carnation. Sophia quickly pieces together what is going on and confronts Kelly about the paternity. Kelly opens up to Sophia, which potentially causes tension with Eden. Sophia says the only way to have piece of mind is to have testing done after the baby is born despite the fact that Kelly and Joe previously agreed not to. 

John, who has had a change of heart when Joe is cleared, pushes Joe to reunite with Kelly and convinces Marissa she needs to let their son be a man and not hold on to him so tightly. Joe would return to Kelly just in time for the baby's birth. It is a joyous moment in which Joe recommits to Kelly and their child because, in Joe's eyes, this is their child no matter what. Kelly starts to reconsider the testing again, but Sophia, fearing for Kelly's sanity in the long run, convinces her to do the testing. Even if only briefly, I would bring in Dr. Olivia Andrade, Rosa and Ruben's mentioned but never seen daughter, to help with the testing. Olivia would confirm Kelly's worst fears: the child is Peter's. 

Joe would win the civil case and receive a hefty settlement which he would use to build his dream home for Kelly and their child. He would also buy into the construction busines he worked for with Marissa's old flame and expand on the business into property development. His plan is one day to go toe to toe with the C.C. Capwells of the world. 

Eventually, the child would get sick and the paternity issue is threatened to be unveiled, but Olivia returns and works with Kelly to keep it quiet except that someone (Kirk? Gina? Keith?) overhears some conversations and pieces together what happened. Kelly would end up being blackmailed or someone else in the Capwell clan would be. At some point, there should be a situation in which Kelly shoots the blackmailer in a scene reminiscent of Channing's murder with Joe walking in to find Kelly over the body with Joe working with the Capwells to keep Kelly's secret. 

My main point is there were places to go with Joe and Kelly and with the Perkins family. 

[j swift]

That is the best explanation that I've ever read on the subject - I appreciate that

Personally, I would have kept with the Kelly vs Eden rivalry that they played with later in the series during the Robert Barr story.  Eden, once free from being number two to Channing, could've continued to try and ingratiate herself with CC.  Her motives for fighting Gina and Santana would've been cleaner if there was clear through line to her trying to keep CC as her own. 

Kelly could've sided with Sophia.  She and Joe could've used Armonti as a power base, or they could've been part of the environmental crowd that opposed CC's drilling and construction efforts.  I like the idea of a  gender twist on the Mason and Channing antagonism into a Kelly vs Eden battle, with Eden always underestimating Kelly, and Kelly using her love of Joe to motivate her fight for the underdogs of Santa Barbara.

Both of them would have opposed the Sophia and CC relationship, but for different reasons.  And, most importantly, both would have had more agency, given their status and power, rather than constantly falling victim to every new crook in town. 

Also, I liked the brief period during the Gillis trial when Mason and Warren worked together.  I wish there had been more exploration of that friendship.  Two nepo-babies, trying to make a name for themselves separate from their father's wealth, ambitious, but still a little spoiled.

Edited October 31, 2022 by j swift

[NothinButAttitude]

I love this.

 

I feel like this would've made SB multi-faceted as the show would finally be a multi-family soaps instead of it being Capwell overload. I feel one of the reasons this show didn't have longevity because anyone outside the Capwell bubble wasn't developed at all. And the classic structure of the "haves" versus the "have nots" was scrapped too soon. 

[Sapounopera]

The idea of a fun, glamorous telenovelish soap that would appeal to international audiences sounds great (Hello B&B). Too many recasts and dark storylines (who wasn't raped on SB?) drove people away.

The show didn't know how to enter the 90s. 

The Paul Rauch / Pam K. Long season reminds me of Dynasty and Falcon Crest's last season, we well as Gloria Monty's return on GH. They all tried to revamp their shows for the 90s, only Dynasty kind of did it. But it was too late. 

[Forever8]

I love how you include not just the Capwell and Perkins families but characters such as Julia, the Lockridge's' and unseen but mentioned characters too. And it would've also given Kelly more to do than be the "Tragic Heroine" 

Edited November 1, 2022 by Forever8