13 hours ago, edgeofnik said:

The biggest issue has to do with generation-skipping and that the 4 or 5 children from Tom/Alice  are long forgotten from the current canvas.

 

Thank you for pin-pointing this, because that's exactly it. They've consistently written out a generation, then kept one and then skipped another one (or two) and then moved on to the next one, which creates no real flow or understanding of the family ties on the show. I think Bill and Laura should at least have been in town for the past two decades and not written off as an example.

10 hours ago, Khan said:

 

Instead of family trees, then, we should just draw a Venn diagram with Claire in the middle.

LOL! So true!

6 hours ago, te. said:

 

Thank you for pin-pointing this, because that's exactly it. They've consistently written out a generation, then kept one and then skipped another one (or two) and then moved on to the next one, which creates no real flow or understanding of the family ties on the show. I think Bill and Laura should at least have been in town for the past two decades and not written off as an example.

 

And Mike Horton (even if keeping him meant several more recasts in addition to the many we already had) should have also spent most of the 80s and 90s siring children left, right and center so that the show would have had a new generation of Horton siblings to keep the family relevant without having to continually pull in long-lost cousins from the Horton family Christmas tree. 😂

Meanwhile, Julie could easily be a great-grandmother to whatever never-before-mentioned offspring Rick Hearst's Scotty has sired. 

 

(Or is it Rick Herbst now? Not sure why the spelling change on his last name nowadays, but I digress) 

58 minutes ago, Dion said:

 

And Mike Horton (even if keeping him meant several more recasts in addition to the many we already had) should have also spent most of the 80s and 90s siring children left, right and center so that the show would have had a new generation of Horton siblings to keep the family relevant without having to continually pull in long-lost cousins from the Horton family Christmas tree. 😂

 

I agree that at least Bill, Laura and Mike should've been a part of the show to create some flow between the second, third and fourth generation of Hortons. I'm not sure why they've been so insistent on having such broken family trees, but to be honest it seems like an issue that can be dated back to the 80s.

8 hours ago, te. said:

 

I agree that at least Bill, Laura and Mike should've been a part of the show to create some flow between the second, third and fourth generation of Hortons. I'm not sure why they've been so insistent on having such broken family trees, but to be honest it seems like an issue that can be dated back to the 80s.

 Possibly can be dated to the so called "Valentines Day massacre" of 1980 when 14 characters were let go, including Bill and Laura and Mike's first wife Margo

I've always wanted to know more about the 1980 massacre.

Per @JAS0N47's excellent recaps, here's how 1980 went down.

(Elizabeth Harrower wrote until Friday, 3/14/80. Ruth Brooks Flippen wrote from Monday, 3/17/80-Friday, 4/18/80. Nina Laemmle wrote from Monday, 4/21/80-Thursday, 10/9/80. Michelle Poteet Lisanti began writing Friday, 10/10/80. Gary Tomlin began writing Monday, 10/20/80.)

 

OUT:

Steve Olson -- left for Paris as early as Friday, 12/28/79

Stephanie Woodruff/Brooke Hamilton -- died in a car accident on Friday, 2/15/80

Linda Anderson -- after failing to be taken back by Bob Anderson, she left town on Wednesday, 3/5/80

Melissa Anderson -- left with Linda, but made occasional appearances until Thursday, 4/17/80 (Linda ended up dumping her at boarding school, which concerned Bob, Mickey and Maggie)

Donna Temple -- taunted for her entanglement in the porn industry, she left town on Thursday, 3/6/80 and also made her last appearance in April, on Friday, 4/11/80

Robert LeCleir -- left to reunite with his sister in Paris on Friday, 3/14/80 (Little Dougie was first left to Doug & Lee, but apparently Robert sent for him almost immediately.)

Laura Horton -- still residing at Lakewood Sanitarium as of Tuesday, 3/25/80

Bob Anderson -- died (of a heart attack, if I remember right) on Friday, 3/28/80 (And right after Mary married Alex, too.)

Phyllis Anderson -- left town Friday, 4/4/80

Bill Horton -- left to be with Laura on Friday, 4/11/80

Samantha Evans -- left for Hollywood on Friday, 4/18/80

Margo Horton -- left to die at Maggie's farm on Wednesday, 5/21/80 (her actual death occurred off screen in July.)

DJ Craig -- born Monday, 2/25/80 and died sometime between Monday, 5/26/80-Wednesday, 5/28/80

Hope Williams -- seems to have made her last pre-SORASed appearance on Friday, 6/27/80

David Banning -- fled town with son Scotty on Monday, 8/25/80

 

IN:

Joshua Fallon -- first appeared Monday, 4/21/80

Maxwell Jarvis -- first appeared Tuesday, 4/22/80

Kellam Chandler -- first appeared Thursday, 4/24/80

Liz Chandler -- first appeared Friday, 4/25/80

Tod Chandler -- first appeared Monday, 4/28/80

Flora Chisholm -- first appeared Monday, 4/28/80

Jessica Blake -- first appeared Wednesday, 4/30/80

Leslie James -- first appeared Monday, 5/5/80

Cassie Burns -- first appeared Wednesday, 5/7/80 (killed off in October, revealed to be an accidental drowning in November)

Johnny Stockton -- Marlena's would-be adopted son first appeared Thursday, 5/22/80

Kyle McCullough -- first appeared Friday, 7/25/80 (attracted to Maggie, left town Tuesday, 12/30/80)

 

I have to imagine plenty of viewers flipped to All My Children during April-May 1980.

4 hours ago, Franko said:

 

I have to imagine plenty of viewers flipped to All My Children during April-May 1980.

 

As someone who had watched Days from its debut in 1965, I was actually glued to the TV during this time. The show was being TORN APART and gutted before viewers' eyes. The writing had been so-so under Harrower, turned poor under Flippen, but became unspeakably WRETCHED under Laemmle. It was like watching a bloody train wreck unfolding in slow motion. It was hard to look away. 

5 hours ago, Franko said:

IN:

Joshua Fallon -- first appeared Monday, 4/21/80

Maxwell Jarvis -- first appeared Tuesday, 4/22/80

Kellam Chandler -- first appeared Thursday, 4/24/80

Liz Chandler -- first appeared Friday, 4/25/80

Tod Chandler -- first appeared Monday, 4/28/80

Flora Chisholm -- first appeared Monday, 4/28/80

Jessica Blake -- first appeared Wednesday, 4/30/80

Leslie James -- first appeared Monday, 5/5/80

Cassie Burns -- first appeared Wednesday, 5/7/80 (killed off in October, revealed to be an accidental drowning in November)

Johnny Stockton -- Marlena's would-be adopted son first appeared Thursday, 5/22/80

Kyle McCullough -- first appeared Friday, 7/25/80 (attracted to Maggie, left town Tuesday, 12/30/80)

 

I have to imagine plenty of viewers flipped to All My Children during April-May 1980.

Sometimes new characters save a soap. Sometimes, they mess it up even more. It's crazy to think that out of all these new characters, Liz was the only one that had any kind of staying power, especially considering how Pat Falken Smith's new characters pretty much saved the show not even two years later. The early 80's was a really bad time for the NBC soaps.

Edited December 5, 20196 yr by AbcNbc247

2 hours ago, vetsoapfan said:

 

As someone who had watched Days from its debut in 1965, I was actually glued to the TV during this time. The show was being TORN APART and gutted before viewers' eyes. The writing had been so-so under Harrower, turned poor under Flippen, but became unspeakably WRETCHED under Laemmle. It was like watching a bloody train wreck unfolding in slow motion. It was hard to look away. 

 

Oh, tell us more.

5 hours ago, AbcNbc247 said:

It's crazy to think that out of all these new characters, Liz was the only one that had any kind of staying power, especially considering how Pat Falken Smith's new characters pretty much saved the show not even two years later.

 

And I believe that was due to Gloria Loring.  I always found her so captivating as Liz, even when Liz and Neil were being put through the usual wringer.

12 hours ago, Franko said:

Per @JAS0N47's excellent recaps, here's how 1980 went down.

(Elizabeth Harrower wrote until Friday, 3/14/80. Ruth Brooks Flippen wrote from Monday, 3/17/80-Friday, 4/18/80. Nina Laemmle wrote from Monday, 4/21/80-Thursday, 10/9/80. Michelle Poteet Lisanti began writing Friday, 10/10/80. Gary Tomlin began writing Monday, 10/20/80.)

 

OUT:

Steve Olson -- left for Paris as early as Friday, 12/28/79

Stephanie Woodruff/Brooke Hamilton -- died in a car accident on Friday, 2/15/80

Linda Anderson -- after failing to be taken back by Bob Anderson, she left town on Wednesday, 3/5/80

Melissa Anderson -- left with Linda, but made occasional appearances until Thursday, 4/17/80 (Linda ended up dumping her at boarding school, which concerned Bob, Mickey and Maggie)

Donna Temple -- taunted for her entanglement in the porn industry, she left town on Thursday, 3/6/80 and also made her last appearance in April, on Friday, 4/11/80

Robert LeCleir -- left to reunite with his sister in Paris on Friday, 3/14/80 (Little Dougie was first left to Doug & Lee, but apparently Robert sent for him almost immediately.)

Laura Horton -- still residing at Lakewood Sanitarium as of Tuesday, 3/25/80

Bob Anderson -- died (of a heart attack, if I remember right) on Friday, 3/28/80 (And right after Mary married Alex, too.)

Phyllis Anderson -- left town Friday, 4/4/80

Bill Horton -- left to be with Laura on Friday, 4/11/80

Samantha Evans -- left for Hollywood on Friday, 4/18/80

Margo Horton -- left to die at Maggie's farm on Wednesday, 5/21/80 (her actual death occurred off screen in July.)

DJ Craig -- born Monday, 2/25/80 and died sometime between Monday, 5/26/80-Wednesday, 5/28/80

Hope Williams -- seems to have made her last pre-SORASed appearance on Friday, 6/27/80

David Banning -- fled town with son Scotty on Monday, 8/25/80

 

IN:

Joshua Fallon -- first appeared Monday, 4/21/80

Maxwell Jarvis -- first appeared Tuesday, 4/22/80

Kellam Chandler -- first appeared Thursday, 4/24/80

Liz Chandler -- first appeared Friday, 4/25/80

Tod Chandler -- first appeared Monday, 4/28/80

Flora Chisholm -- first appeared Monday, 4/28/80

Jessica Blake -- first appeared Wednesday, 4/30/80

Leslie James -- first appeared Monday, 5/5/80

Cassie Burns -- first appeared Wednesday, 5/7/80 (killed off in October, revealed to be an accidental drowning in November)

Johnny Stockton -- Marlena's would-be adopted son first appeared Thursday, 5/22/80

Kyle McCullough -- first appeared Friday, 7/25/80 (attracted to Maggie, left town Tuesday, 12/30/80)

 

I have to imagine plenty of viewers flipped to All My Children during April-May 1980.

All these's comings and goings are making my head spin. I can't imagine even die hard fans sticking around.  

Edited December 5, 20196 yr by victoria foxton

6 hours ago, AbcNbc247 said:

Sometimes new characters save a soap. Sometimes, they mess it up even more. It's crazy to think that out of all these new characters, Liz was the only one that had any kind of staying power, especially considering how Pat Falken Smith's new characters pretty much saved the show not even two years later. 

 

PFS was an excellent writer who understood the show. Laemmle, not so much. After seeing her dreck on other serialized shows, I knew NL would be a disaster. I was surprised that TPTB gave her a full six months to wreak havoc on Salem.

 

5 hours ago, Vee said:

 

Oh, tell us more.

 

"Oh, phucque, what are they DOING to my show???" pretty much says it all about that time period.

 

50 minutes ago, Khan said:

 

And I believe that was due to Gloria Loring.  I always found her so captivating as Liz, even when Liz and Neil were being put through the usual wringer.

 

She was very charismatic and had star appeal. So did Stephen Brooks as Joshua Fallon, but he quit abruptly and his replacement was a dud. Paul Keenan as Todd Chandler was also beautiful and sweet, but the show decided to axe him pretty quickly. God knows why. None of the other newbies were particularly interesting, and the awful writing make their failure inevitable.

 

17 minutes ago, victoria foxton said:

All these's comings and goings are making my head spin. I can't imagine even die hard fans sticking around. 

 

I stuck around because Days was MY SHOW, lol, and back then, I still had hope that it could be saved. 

4 hours ago, Khan said:

 

And I believe that was due to Gloria Loring.  I always found her so captivating as Liz, even when Liz and Neil were being put through the usual wringer.

 

It just goes to show you when you get an actor who works with the audience you need to work on keeping them, even if you end up nuking their entire family like they did with the Chandlers. Of course, it means you have to record the show in a timely pace to keep up with viewer feedback. *cough* Brandon Barash *cough*