3 minutes ago, KMan101 said:

I can see where you're coming from, I don't entirely agree but thanks for explaining it. Wasn't looking to argue or anything just wondering what you considered being propped meant. I really don't think they deliberately wrote Hilary bad to make Mariah look better in comparison I think they just did a piss poor job at writing their 'rivalry' and clearly realized it didn't make sense and more or less abandoned it. But not trying to argue how you see it. Just my take on it.

 

It was way too heavy to not be intentional. Mariah was who we were supposed to root for.  I've watched soaps way too long to mistake writer's intent. I know there is sometimes a gap between writer's intent vs actor's portrayal vs how it all comes across but this was one time where I think it was indisputable what feelings they were trying to invoke. 

22 minutes ago, ajsp35801 said:

You act like Bryton has gotten JM level focus.  Or even the much maligned GR level focus. I think we all can agree that he has not. This is the most play he has gotten since VR left when he was a teen. 

 

Bryton has gotten a lot of play in at least the last several years, though. And he can't quite make it to where Mishael Morgan can. After a certain point things stop become systemic issues and begin to also transform into self-fulfilling prophecy onscreen. I've seen a lot of people say they just don't buy him as a grown-up. I can and I think he still has possibilities, but I can see the complaint. I just don't think his issues can or should be offloaded onto Camryn Grimes, who couldn't buy major airtime before December.

 

Mariah/Hilary was centered and got far more airtime and play than Mariah/Devon ever did and more play than Devon/Hilary since their divorce.

 

That's a fair take, but I think the show's glidepath is still back to Devon and Hillary.

2 minutes ago, Vee said:

 

I agree. It was too much. I also don't see how Hillary is worse off now vs. the last regime(s).

 

Hilary had much better writing after Devon's accident. I think we can all agree to that as well. 

9 minutes ago, ajsp35801 said:

 

Hilary had much better writing after Devon's accident. I think we can all agree to that as well. 

 

She did. It's been hit or miss since though, unfortunately. I don't know whether I can say if it was worse or better before (I wasn't watching as regularly during this time-frame). The back and forth with Neil and Devon was slightly insulting so I'll go with ... better ... LOL

Edited July 21, 20178 yr by KMan101

24 minutes ago, Vee said:

 

Bryton has gotten a lot of play in at least the last several years, though. And he can't quite make it to where Mishael Morgan can. After a certain point things stop become systemic issues and begin to also transform into self-fulfilling prophecy onscreen. I've seen a lot of people say they just don't buy him as a grown-up. I can and I think he still has possibilities, but I can see the complaint. I just don't think his issues can or should be offloaded onto Camryn Grimes, who couldn't buy major airtime before December.

 

 

 

 

That's a fair take, but I think the show's glidepath is still back to Devon and Hillary.

 

I never offloaded the perceived issues that folks have with Bryton onto Camryn. However, you offloaded the issues folks have with her onto him. Which was the only reason I inserted myself into the conversation. Otherwise, I would have let it pass. I realize it's popular here to dislike Bryton. I'm accustomed to it. Lol.

 

I also think the show is headed back to Devon and Hilary which is why you have Hevon fans, myself included, frustrated that instead of centering them, the show centered Mariah/Hilary with her going back and forth between them and them barely sharing scenes with each other. They seem headed for a reunion very soon. Do we see them sharing scenes  building to that? No. We get day after day of Mariah vs Hilary fighting over him while he's sometimes not on. I find it atypical for the genre. 

14 minutes ago, KMan101 said:

 

She did. It's been hit or miss since though, unfortunately. I don't know whether I can say if it was worse or better before (I wasn't watching as regularly during this time-frame). The back and forth with Neil and Devon was slightly insulting so I'll go with ... better ... LOL

 

I've gone on record as saying that she was written horribly last year to absolve Neil of his crimes. My opinion has not changed on that. Lol

Edited July 21, 20178 yr by ajsp35801

43 minutes ago, ajsp35801 said:

 

When everything she does is painted in a good light no matter what and her rival is painted in a bad light no matter what, yeah I call it propped. This show wrote Hilary into the ground so that folks would root for Mariah to win. While I admit that the bad writing for Hilary didn't start with this story, it sure did get progressively worse. The story was Hilary bad and wrong so she deserves nothing. Mariah good and right so she deserves happiness and Hilary's life. Every character she came into contact with onscreen repeated the "you're better that Hilary and better for Devon" line to Mariah and/or Devon. It bordered on the Billy!ManOfTheYear propping IMO. And you know how I felt about that. 

 

In retrospect, writing wise with this turn the show is taking, I totally get why they were so heavy with that rivalry with Hilary. The show wants us to love Mariah and root really hard for her happiness where she's finally found this special connection and is being put first by her partner albeit a female. I get that. But, because I'm a fan of Hilary, I still don't like how it came at her expense. The show damaged her even more and I have no faith that they'd ever put in the effort to repair said damage. 

 

Bryton has gotten long standing story focus? The guy whose character was trotted out 52 episodes a year for years to play angst to Lily's vagina. The guy that it took a full decade to finally get an onscreen romance. You act like Bryton has gotten JM level focus.  Or even the much maligned GR level focus. I think we all can agree that he has not. This is the most play he has gotten since VR left when he was a teen. 

 

I think you misread. I said that CG and MiM dynamic has been the focus.  Mariah/Hilary was centered and got far more airtime and play than Mariah/Devon ever did and more play than Devon/Hilary since their divorce. 

 

Careful ajsp, you can't acknowledge the institutional issues of the medium at SON without providing "solutions."  Otherwise certain posters will attempt to weakly diss you in paragraph form.  

3 minutes ago, DeeeDee said:

 

Careful ajsp, you can't acknowledge the institutional issues of the medium at SON without providing "solutions."  Otherwise certain posters will attempt to weakly diss you in paragraph form.  

 

I think it's very weak to pretend that BJ has gotten long standing focus and failed at it. Yeah, the last couple of years, he has gotten far more focus. But he's yet to be given lead status in any of it. They always find a way to center someone else. Lol

I think Mariah was much more sexual and believable when she was introduced.

 

I do think she has been propped and de-sexualized by SSM in a this-is-the-ingenue-you-guys-should-root-for kind of way. It's just the way SSM was trained by Bell (or at least, what she gathered from him). Which is a real shame. We don't need Cassie 2.0.

Edited July 21, 20178 yr by Aback

20 minutes ago, DeeeDee said:

Otherwise certain posters will attempt to weakly diss you in paragraph form.  

 

You forgot to bump RIch and the Ruthless today with something positive.

 

One line and out!

The thing that de-sexualized Mariah was pining after Kevin for so long. They had great friend chemistry, but zero sexual chemistry. Tying her to him and turning her into Cassie were just two reasons Mariah lost the edge she had. I blame Chuckles Pratt for that. And JFP. She lost her "kick" long before Sally took over/

4 minutes ago, Aback said:

I think Mariah was much more sexual and believable when she was introduced.

 

I do think she has been propped and de-sexualized by SSM in a this-is-the-ingenue-you-guys-should-root-for kind of way. It's just the way SSM was trained by Bell (or at least, what she gathered from him). Which is a real shame. We don't need Cassie 2.0.

 

+1

 

And admitting she's propped is not a knock against CG. She doesn't write for Mariah. Its not her fault. 

 

That's obviously the story being that this week it all has been reduced down to who does Devon prefer to bang. Hilary hypersexualized vs Mariah's innocence. 

38 minutes ago, ajsp35801 said:

I never offloaded the perceived issues that folks have with Bryton onto Camryn. However, you offloaded the issues folks have with her onto him.

 

Yeah, that's because Grimes only started getting two minutes hate around here when Mariah infringed on Devon and Hillary. It's relevant. Let's not act like it wasn't brand new overnight, that's all I'm saying. The issues with Bryton's usage (which, as I said, are absolutely systemic but have become more than that for a number of people) and the writing for him, Hillary or that couple all pre-date Mariah and Grimes. They'll be there without her.

 

Quote

I also think the show is headed back to Devon and Hilary which is why you have Hevon fans, myself included, frustrated that instead of centering them, the show centered Mariah/Hilary with her going back and forth between them and them barely sharing scenes with each other. They seem headed for a reunion very soon. Do we see them sharing scenes  building to that? No. We get day after day of Mariah vs Hilary fighting over him while he's sometimes not on.

 

Again, is that Grimes' fault? Nah. It's the show. But again, she wasn't exactly eating air hand over fist a year ago. Running down her talent or right to prominence on the show is not necessary to advocate for that very reasonable take on the storyline. and true, I am lukewarm on Bryton so I could've been a bit less snippy about him to begin with, but I'm just over folks pretending Camryn Grimes has been some longstanding issue when everyone wanted more for her last year. Most of all, trying to angle gay jokes around some fanbase pettiness has me heated.

Edited July 21, 20178 yr by Vee

@slick jones, Mariah needed no help!  Two of the most asexual characters as a pairing?  That is too much to ask of an audience.  

 

I haven't watched in a minute, but I hope Mariah has chem with Tess because if she doesn't, no more attempts should be made to keep Cam and make Mariah relevant.  Sharon didn't need a retcon child!  

Edited July 21, 20178 yr by ChitHappens

The kids in a bubble bugs me. First Reed/Mattie and then Phyllis 'meeting' Johnny and Katie? Are we supposed to believe ALL the years when Phyllis was their aunt (via Jack), Billy's kids never encounters Phyllis? C'mon. 

 

ITA with the Cassification of CG. Mariah was so much fun as a wild card. Pairing her with Kevin was so destructive. And they even had characters admit on screen that the sex was terrible. Instead of moving Mariah on to someone else, she became wrapped in plastic and left mooning over Kevin 'being his friend,' etc. Ugh. 

 

And if if someone doesn't believe it's the pairings not actors, see JT/GT steam v JT/AH iceberg.  

20 minutes ago, Aback said:

I think Mariah was much more sexual and believable when she was introduced.

 

I do think she has been propped and de-sexualized by SSM in a this-is-the-ingenue-you-guys-should-root-for kind of way. It's just the way SSM was trained by Bell (or at least, what she gathered from him). Which is a real shame. We don't need Cassie 2.0.

 

I could buy Mariah acting like Cassie 2.0 if there was any indication she is doing that due to sharon..and feeling overshadowed by Cassie.

 

It would have been something Bill bell would have done.