Bravo's The Real Housewives of....

[alwaysAMC]

 

Oh wow, that's gross - I can't believe she compared herself to George.

[Faulkner]

 

[chrisml]

Bravo has always had a white cast problem. They've always allowed racism and homophobia to go unchecked. If we're going to fire everyone for being a  racist, saying something racist, being a homophobe, saying something homophobic, who does that leave us with on the bravo reality shows? Ariana from VPR Kandi, and Cynthia Bailey???? Don't most viewers watch these shows for the lunatic women and men? Most sane and evenhanded people are not going to want to go on these reality shows especially as the fans call them boring. These shows have a fanbase where a woman can falsely accuse another women of wanting to rape and drug another woman, and fans continue to call for her to be brought back to the show because she's "funny" and "gives good reads." We all know why they've never had any housewives of color on RHOC or RHONY (save for Jules). Instead of firing everyone, I think they should stop editing these people as kooky or funny. Let them reveal themselves the way they did with Leeann. They need to stop protecting the racist and homophobes--let's not forget that Bravo was behind the Stassi and Beau positive edit. 

[Taoboi]

Other than the fact the writer kept forgetting about Tina as the FIRST black woman on VPR, that was a good read.

 

It does make me wonder if I am going to watch RHOD given how I feel about Kary and the fact they are going to attempt some diversity.

 

 

Which I agree with most of this, I felt the article was trying to say that given the world is FULL (all one has to do is look at Twitter during all things BLM to TikTok (which I mostly loathe) to the very fact that people will do and post anything as simple as they walked outside for a minute) of people wanting attention, it should be extremely easy to for Bravo to find an unproblematic famewhore. So no reason to keep any of the racist housewives/bravocelebrity around at all. Using Aviva from NY as an example. Someone who watched all of her seasons could probably say more than I, but has she ever been dramatic BUT not unproblematic in real life with a racist, sexist, tone deaf tweet?

Edited June 20, 2020 by Taoboi

[Cat]

@Faulkner @chrisml @Taoboi Thanks for the article and for the debate about where Bravo goes from here.

 

First, the article was good, though I did hesitate on one thing. Yes, we know Ramona flirted with a Rep congressman who hates feminism, but is that quite on a par with with what Stassi and Kristen did to Faith on VPR?

 

Certain Bravolebrities have done racist and homophobic things for years and it's only now that Bravo wants to do something about it? We've talked about these things on this very thread; it's not like the definition of racism recently changed and that's why Bravo is suddenly jumping into action over stuff it OKed in 2018.

 

I feel like Bravo is hoping that the VPR firings will be the fall guy for the network, and that this will save management and other shows (minus VPR probably and Southern Charm, which is horrifically toxic in its rapey, racist bro culture). Although there does seem to be a push currently from one Ms. Tamra Judge to fire Kelly Dodd for racist, nasty stuff she says.

 

Why did/do I enjoy the RH shows? For a while during the last two decades, a lot of TV felt very CSI/Les Moonves-esque. I didn't see a lot of female representation outside of compliant, baby-voiced The Bachelor contestants -- the patriarchy's way of telling us what sort of women we are expected to be, lol. The RH showed women of all ages and backgrounds, and they were the stars. They weren't one dimensional representations of womanhood. We were seeing the good with the bad, and it provoked lots of debate.

 

However, while I still enjoy the shows and the HWs, change is long overdue and needs to be implemented immediately. One problem, which a lot of us have flagged here over the years, is the segregation. Andy not wanting WOC on shows outside of Atlanta or Potomac. Naomi Campbell saying she would love to be on BH and Andy whining why can't she move to Atlanta? That stuck in my craw. Naomi is a Superstar and can go wherever she wants!

 

The other problem is management, which I imagine is largely white. ATL had an egregious example. Carlos King, the black show runner, was fired and replaced by a largely white crew from Tardy for the Party, who were hired to focus on lazy waste-of-silicon Kim Z. It got so bad that Kandi refused to film unless a black producer was at least present on set. Change has to happen on all levels, including the top brass and writers room. (You can tell on Potomac there is a mixed or mostly AA crew which some of the HWs felt compelled to defend against the Darbys last year).

 

Look at Garcelle, for example, who has grabbed a sliver of a chance on BH this year and is running with it. Bravo needs to run with this, too. This is no longer the time for baby steps. RH women can be problematic, but like @chrisml pointed out, at least RHOD confronted us with their racism. I certainly had to confront my own complicity in watching the show. Leann was rightly held to account and fired. We can all agree that Leeann and Brandi needed to go, though we might also dislike the manipulative, blinkered and coddled Kary.

 

If RHOD wants some interesting Mexican-Americans in the mix, there was a Bravo show that nobody watched called Texicanas, set in San Antonio, which I loved. But again, Bravo did that segregate thing because Bravo is obsessed with clans, cliques, tribes, microcosms. Same with Family Karma (fab show featuring Indian-Americans in Miami) which nobody apparently watched either.

 

Maybe we should also question the role of powerful advertisers on TV which, up until the pandemic, largely wanted to target certain demos. Those demos were usually 20-something white females. 

Edited June 21, 2020 by Cat

[Taoboi]

@Cat well when you put it that way, it really makes it very very clear what...or should I say who...is the common dominator here. And people had been mentioning it online already, but it truly clicks when you say it.

 

Andy Cohen. The man who did step down, claims because of that he has no power, but in REALITY has enough power from building the network (some might call it respect) that he only has to mention who he wants to keep on a show (Jax, Kelly, Wig), that the network heads in charge do listen. The fact he is not has been getting him called out. And rightly so.

 

I lost respect for him over the fact he was stopped being objective. The RHOD reunion. BELOW DECK where a guy sexually assaulted his superior 3 times while leading his co-workers into a disgusting level of toxic masculinity that the show franchises are STILL trying to recover from (Not helped by the last spinoff being centered on a toxic relationship between the chef and the chief stew or the current racist drama on the other spinoff BELOW DECK MED). The last OC reunion. There are just as many people who deserved to be called out. And there was Andy letting them get away with murder because he has favorites or something trivial like his butt looks right in those pants. I may think someone is hot, too, but if they are being a prick I will more than likely call him out for it.

 

I don't think there can truly be real chance until something is done with Andy who gets more and more eccentric by the day. Perhaps even someone who finally call him out on his allegedly BTS stuff. In any case, I agree with you that it is looking more and more like the VPR are scapegoats. Just look at the fact that fans are finally calling Andy and Lipsa out about the Harry Hamlin Halloween costume and Andy wanted to pop an attitude about it because it was 3 years ago. ANNND? Max and Brett's tweet were a decade ago when they were kids vs Lipsa who has NO excuses. NONE. IT WAS IN POOR TASTE, ANDY! STOP PLAYING FAVORITES, ANDY.

 

Because I know it makes me see red, I will keep this part brief. I still feel RHOD LeeAnne was ignorant more than racist. It was clear what Kary was doing and she was lucky she didn't get slapped honestly. I already explained my reason why at the time. And hopefully like me, LeeAnne goes on to a better place in life like I did. If anything Kary will be her own worst enemy like from what I heard happened with that person. But the question of Brandi still has to be dealt with. I see there is a rumor that Cary might be coming back when filming resumes to fade out Brandi who might have been filming. I hope it is true. Brandi got away with a lot and her doubling down on her tweet and then running and hiding rather than owning her messup did her no favors. If LeeAnne got fired and she was the star, then Brandi should not be there either. Happy for the diversity coming to RHOD but I don't see if I will continue on with it in its current state. 

 

I thought Family Karma was a slow grower in ratings. That it ended on solid ratings. Am I wrong? In any case, I still think it will get a second season, if only because I feel Andy...I mean the network...wants to use them to fade out SHAHS OF SUNSET. In any case again...so you finished watching Family Karma? You like?

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[Cat]

@Taoboi I don't completely disagree with your remarks about Andy. But when I was talking about Bravo, I was thinking of all the top execs who make day-to-day decisions about the shows. Andy does have power, but it's not at their level of power. The CEO, for example, is rumoured to be a huge fan of Nene. IMO Andy is at a point where he couldn't care less if Nene left. But the CEO and exec team have more power than him so they stay writing Nene's cheques.

 

I also think that since he became a father, Andy has mellowed. But yes, he loves to stir and encourage his WWHL guests to do outrageous things. I'm sure some stuff about Andy will eventually come out. I just don't know the specifics of what that stuff is and whether it's enough to send him on his way. More than any RH, Andy *IS* Mr Bravo and closely associated with the brand. Full disclosure: I do enjoy Andy doing WWHL and hosting the reunions, as problematic as he can be. 

 

It's funny, I've only ever watched like two episodes of Below Deck, and one was from this season, with the chef and the chief stew? Something about that relationship made me feel uncomfortable, and now I know why. 

 

Dont get upset about RHOD! I can agree with you on Leeanne being ignorant as opposed to having full-on hatred for all Mexicans. However, the Julio Iglesias quote, the doubling-down.... Leeanne needed a break from TV for a moment. She is made for reality TV, but it became her world, her everything (in a way that it isn't for someone like Stephanie who could probably carry on with her normal life without the cameras more easily). TV is always trying to take something from you. Also, the lines between what was authentic and what was fake (like her TV wedding) became very evident. I feel bad because Leeanne is so wounded. She felt loved by her fans. To have that love turn to approbation must be incredibly hard to handle. On the other hand, if I were her, I would sit tight. I don't think Leeanne is completely gone from the show. And I think karma will have a reckoning for Kary and D'Andra this year.

 

Brandi isn't fired?? I thought for sure she was gone! I am really shocked. Her social media stuff was outright racism against Asians. I love me some Cary Deuber, but why is she stuck ushering Chuckie off the show? 

 

I'm halfway through Family Karma! I like. Glad to hear the ratings solidified.

Edited June 21, 2020 by Cat

[Soaplovers]

To be honest,  I don't find the housewives to be a positive images of women.  It actually reinforces negative stereotypes of women as petty,  overly emotional, and lacking in conflict resolution.  

[chrisml]

ISn't that why a lot of the viewers watch them? I don't think most viewers look to the HW shows for examples of sanity and compassion.

 

I think this whole situation is extremely complicated. I think there are so many factors involved. The viewers for instance. Max and Brett's racist tweets were pretty much a nonstory for most of the season. A majority of the viewers still watched the show. I usually just watch the reunions so didn't watch this season but my sense is that the biggest problem for viewers is that B/M came across as a-holes without the tweets added in. Also, when is someone forgiven/excused for past bigoted behavior? Their tweets were a decade ago. I don't care about Brett and Max, but if people have shown growth (assuming this in a general sense), why are we going back ten years? The world would be a depressing place if we didn't allow people the chance to change their ways. It's not the same thing at all, but the whole nonsense about criticising Tyra Banks for talking about someone's looks on a modelling show. There was all this outrage about something that happened a decade or so ago.

 

It also feels that the very people who would go after someone for 10 year old tweets are the very people staying silent about Nene's tweets and Porsha'a anti-gay past. If we're going to be fair about biogtry, why wasn't Porsha immediately fired? She preached hate and she used anti-gay rhetoric to get back at her ex.The same with Nene. Nene's BLM tweets are a week old. This isn't something ten years ago. Kristin and Stassi's behavior was recent and Stassi in particular gloated about what she did. While I don't find Faith credible at all (she even backpedaled on her LVP claims and deleted pro-T**mp tweets to make herself look better), they deserved to be fired. Are the people who are going after VPR going to go after Brandi's racist behavior towards Asians? Marlo calling someone a F*ggot? Brandi G's racist remarks to and about Joyce? Luann's blackface? I feel as if a lot of the fans participate in this. This is the same fan base that calls for Phaedra to come back after accusing someone of wanting to rape and drug someone. This is the same fan base that think it's ok for Nene to physically attack a cameraman. The same ones who made excuses for Vicki's cancer scams. The fans can be very toxic.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited June 22, 2020 by chrisml

[Taoboi]

@Cat The sad truth is BELOW DECK WAS a great show. It was like the VPR  or Upstairs/Downstairs but on water. If you can, I would totally binge Season 1 through 6 (Season 3 alone is one of the most juicy seasons and made Bravo/Andy take notice giving them a reunion on the same level as the other RHs and other shows...it was THAT bitca. lol.) Of course Season 1 and 2 were great. 4 had its drama. 5 you started to feel that feel on its being overproduced that sets in for all shows. 6 balances it better. Then 7 the current season...was where it took its current dark turn, resulting in one of the two main stars leaving (but staying in the Bravo bubble so far while she branches out to other things) the show this year. I know a lot of people are hoping that next season might return it to normal and better times. However, given the newest spinoff SAILING YAGHT (the show you watched) had some potential and producers focused more on the toxic relationship you mentioned (and it was toxic, I don't know if you saw how bad it got...the producers showed EVERYTHING and those two now seem to hate the fans and the chef after being on BELOW DECK MED in a juicy triangle one season and a redemptive second season on there will definitely NOT be returning to another show after how he was shown...true colors and all) and this current season of BELOW DECK MED (which had a good first three seasons) just revealed itself as problematic with the racist bombshell of one of the crew members and another main character leaving after this season...I don't see how that franchise will make a good turn back to how it was. Still a good watch.

 

Speaking of FAMILY KARMA, a little tea. TT did a blind item today and it appears that it was about that. It looked like it was about to be a one and done since some 'unnamed' Bravo producer was about to cancel it. However, someone either behind the scenes of the show or one of the stars called them out about it, showing the numbers. So that plused all the VPR firing drama might have helped pushed it forward for a Second season. However, the advice was to start making your voice heard NOW if one wanted it to come back. Happy you liked it so far. I didn't pay attention at first. But around episode 3 or 4, it hooked me and I followed to the end. From what I saw of ratings, it stayed up. I kinda wish that, Texicanas (which I still hope will show up on another show since the stars were working on doing that), and Mexican Dynasties would all come back now. 

 

Back to the rest...lol. From what I saw online for the last few months RE: RHOD. Brandi was NOT fired. It seem like she had been filming except for Stephanie's bday because something came up. Now I've seen two things pop up. One says that Brandi did something scandalous having to do with a baby allegedly...not sure if it is one of the adoptions. Because as of a day or so ago, people are now wondering if she got fired. Especially since fans want her fired due to that video. Moreso since LeeAnne was for the same thing.  Then Cary started popping up in pictures, making people wonder if she is coming back. In RL, it seems Cary is feuding with D'Andra (in fact, they apparently was feuding last season but all those scenes were cut), Stephanie, AND  Brandi. Also Cary is friends still with Kary and the newbies. So it will probably be a mystery until filming resumes...which is suppose to be tomorrow. I might be wrong about this, I am going by memory from what I've seen. 

 

I agree with you on LeeAnne. I might miss her, but a break might be best in this situation and from what I've seen online...she was doing just that for the most part. I think it was either you or Daytime Fan saying you could see them doing a cliffhanger return for her at the end of an episode to get ratings in. Cuz you know they would advertise it.

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  But if she ever returned, unlike Nene, I could see her being humble. 

 

I heard about that CEO. I wish he would change his mind, but he does call their building the HOUSE THAT NENE BUILT so...smh.

 

While Andy still does have his moments at reunions, I just lost all respect for him. His ego would not let him let someone who might be interested in a show (cuz comedian/super fan Leslie Jones should have hosted that BELOW DECK reunion) host a reunion. It is clear the shows he love that he did reunions for and which shows he was just paying lip service this year and if he was not going to do the research to get up to speed on a show he doesn't watch, he really should not host. Again that BELOW DECK reunion was disgusting on so many levels...especially for someone who whether he stepped down or not is still seen as the Face of Bravo...a network where the demo are women. And that was a bad look for him and no excuse of surgery was going to cut it. 

[ChitHappens]

 

!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Taoboi]

Oops. Someone said that RHoNY and RHoBH filmed all their stuff...even the at home.

 

Totally trying to space out the seasons as well as going over editing. 

 

Lame. 

[Chris B]

This is pretty much what Andy said. We know for a fact Potomac was pushed back to spread out new content. As long as resumed filming goes well for ATL, Dallas, NJ and OC, at least one should be ready by the beginning of the year which is when they’d need another HW show. Andy said OC filmed halfway before Covid-19 so that could be the first one out. Also this is all dependent on the shows resuming filming and not having to stop again. NY and BH will probably take the longest to film again. 
 

In other news, Nene’s exit from RHOA is supposed to be announced and confirmed today. We will see if that’s true. 

[Taoboi]

I believe for sure that it is to spread it out, but given the extended filming BH did I simply do not believe that they need any more postproduction. Same with RHOP. Same with NY. I think the latter two are just 'victims' of BH which I feel is less about spreading it out and more about editing to be sure some people stay liked.

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Speaking of material, RHOSL is due as well, no? Or was done and maybe in the ACTUAL process of postproduction when Covid started?

 

I wonder if she will really do it. 

 

 

[chrisml]

I hope Nene does leave. The woman has shown herself to be absolutely vile while black Americans are being murdered left and right.

 

I think they should hire two wives. One wife who can't stand Porsha (or vice versa) and one from Cynthia's past. Not surprising that Porsha is in favor of a Nene return since she has no story besides her BLM protests and I doubt HW viewers will want to relive the beginning of the Atlanta BLM protests when the show comes back especially as it could be a depressing reminder that things only got worse or it could be a reminder that change did happen. I could be wrong, but it seems to me that the fans want the personal drama rather than real talk about racism. Am I being too hard on the HW fans? We all know Dennis is a cheater, so Porsha will try to hide that on the show. She's already fought with her sister and Shamea. She's accused Kandi of rape and drugs.She fought Cynthia. She fought with Kenya. I suppose she could turn on Tanya but that doesn't seem likely.

 

Dorinda did say on Cynthia Bailey's IG live that they had not been able to edit the pickup interviews on RHONY.  I'm with Taoboi. I think the RHOBH shutdown is more about Denise coming across so well while Kyle, Erika and Lisa R. look absolutely vile. The network protects those three for some reason. They also have Brandi coming on, and if they are serious about getting rid of bigoted people, they will cut her out as much as possible.