There was an interview with MG after she quit GL citing the lack of growth and strength in Holly was the reason she left.  She had hoped to see some more agency in the character post Roger falling off the cliff..but was made more passive.  If you saw late 1979 episodes, Holly was more assertive so I can see she thought it would have continued into 1980.

19 hours ago, robbwolff said:

 

I believe it was Anne Howard Bailey and Charles Pratt.

 

UGH, two of the worst writers to hit daytime TV.

Completely off topic from what everyone is discussing but, I finally figured out why Tangie didn't really fit on the canvas.  Marcy Walker, I think, tried her best with what she was given and it wasn't completely the writing. The role would have been better if cast by an actress who had not been so huge on another soap- either a relative newcomer, ideally an actress who previously had played a minor character(s) on a soap(s). 

Walker had been something of a phenom on SB, part of the show's supercouple, probably a challenge to integrate into something of a lesser role on a more ensemble-oriented, especially when the character came on as a bit of an appendage to a popular character (Josh).  Perhaps if the character had entered the canvas on her own, in some way, things might have gone differently.

 

Another idea, and this might seem controversial-- I do think Barbara Crampton and Vincent Irizarry had some chemistry...she just wasn't Mindy. She also had good chemistry with most of the Lewises (except for the weird/awkward energy her Mindy had with "Uncle Josh", who Crampton never referred to as Uncle Josh, the way Tesreau had in the past).  Crampton wasn't the worst Mindy but I was always keenly aware that her portrayal was far away from that of Tesreau and Simms.

18 minutes ago, DramatistDreamer said:

Completely off topic from what everyone is discussing but, I finally figured out why Tangie didn't really fit on the canvas.  Marcy Walker, I think, tried her best with what she was given and it wasn't completely the writing. The role would have been better if cast by an actress who had not been so huge on another soap- either a relative newcomer, ideally an actress who previously had played a minor character(s) on a soap(s). 

Walker had been something of a phenom on SB, part of the show's supercouple, probably a challenge to integrate into something of a lesser role on a more ensemble-oriented, especially when the character came on as a bit of an appendage to a popular character (Josh).  Perhaps if the character had entered the canvas on her own, in some way, things might have gone differently.

 

Another idea, and this might seem controversial-- I do think Barbara Crampton and Vincent Irizarry had some chemistry...she just wasn't Mindy. She also had good chemistry with most of the Lewises (except for the weird/awkward energy her Mindy had with "Uncle Josh", who Crampton never referred to as Uncle Josh, the way Tesreau had in the past).  Crampton wasn't the worst Mindy but I was always keenly aware that her portrayal was far away from that of Tesreau and Simms.

Maybe Crampton should have played Tangie instead?

Marcy seemed to have a very clear, unsparing view of why her GL run failed with no patience for niceties. We could use her candor today, unfortunately she's a fundie now.

 

Barbara Crampton is a goddess mostly known for her brilliant work in genre film these days, where she's having a huge career resurgence these last ten years. But she was a genre legend in the 80s too, before and during her soap years. I don't know why she didn't work on GL but any show that could fumble her versatility and extreme engagement is beyond me. That woman can play anything.

Edited July 21, 20205 yr by Vee

33 minutes ago, DramatistDreamer said:

Completely off topic from what everyone is discussing but, I finally figured out why Tangie didn't really fit on the canvas.  Marcy Walker, I think, tried her best with what she was given and it wasn't completely the writing. The role would have been better if cast by an actress who had not been so huge on another soap- either a relative newcomer, ideally an actress who previously had played a minor character(s) on a soap(s). 

Walker had been something of a phenom on SB, part of the show's supercouple, probably a challenge to integrate into something of a lesser role on a more ensemble-oriented, especially when the character came on as a bit of an appendage to a popular character (Josh).  Perhaps if the character had entered the canvas on her own, in some way, things might have gone differently.

 

Another idea, and this might seem controversial-- I do think Barbara Crampton and Vincent Irizarry had some chemistry...she just wasn't Mindy. She also had good chemistry with most of the Lewises (except for the weird/awkward energy her Mindy had with "Uncle Josh", who Crampton never referred to as Uncle Josh, the way Tesreau had in the past).  Crampton wasn't the worst Mindy but I was always keenly aware that her portrayal was far away from that of Tesreau and Simms.

 

In my opinion, an actress like Walker should have been cast in a legacy role.  Perhaps Mindy (as you mentioned), or maybe Hope Bauer (not sure if she was old enough).  Tangie just seemed like a nobody role.  It was silly to cast Walker in such a minor role, even though I'm sure GL payed her big-bucks.  What a waste.

18 minutes ago, Soaplovers said:

Maybe Crampton should have played Tangie instead?

 

That did spring to mind, lol.

Oof. As awkward as BC was as Mindy, I just can’t imagine that role working as written even if KS remained in the part. The show had just lost its way on so many levels during the Nick/Mindy years.  That’s where my VI dislike began.

 

BC had some very nice things about a former college classmate of mine who passed away from cancer. She seems absolutely lovely and in the right place in her career.

 

Here’s the great Marcy Walker interview about her GL time (and her whole career really) from the old TV Guide website in the late ‘90s. She’s really frank about a LOT of stuff:

http://marcywalkeronline.tripod.com/pages/press022.htm

Edited July 21, 20205 yr by Faulkner

It is great, thanks. And relevant to more than one thread.

 

At GL, I was never given anything to do. If I was in a scene, I was pouring a beer, you know? Or I was being a good friend -- I was listening to somebody else talk about their problems. There was a little something happening with Ron Raines, but there was no time invested in it. And you must invest time. Even at AMC with Jake, we were given two weeks of five scenes a day -- one-on-one -- before coming to Pine Valley, so that gave us time to get comfortable, get established, make some choices. GL was an odd situation in that I was playing a character that neither I nor they had a clue about. No one could explain her. And I was working with Robert Newman, who had a character -- Josh -- who was deeply rooted. Robert had been on for a very long time; he knew what his character would and wouldn't do. And there I am trying to figure out how Tangie fits in. And she never fit in. [...] It feels like some missing page in a photo album. I know that time passed, but there's nothing to really show for it. When people ask, "What shows have you done?," I feel like not wanting to include GL as part of my acting repertoire because I didn't really do anything there. I got to meet some great people -- Jerry ver Dorn, Ron Raines, Maeve Kinkead, Peter Simon -- great actors and great people -- and it was really fun to get to know them, but I never really felt like I belonged. I never really felt that I fit in.

 

I shared a dressing room with Liz Keifer, who would sit and talk to me sometimes and say, "Well, you really must be pissed off. It's such a shame; it's such a waste." And I would listen to this from a variety of GL people from the get-go -- from day one I was hearing things like, "I don't understand what they're doing with you." From day one. But I decided on something early on: I thought, "Now, I could get very angry about this and point the finger, or I can try to figure out why I'm really here." I mean, there had to be something bigger than my just being brought in to be a disaster. There had to be a bigger gift than this. I tried to look at it as if the experience was not for naught -- that there was a reason. And I think as time went by that helped me -- I was able to look beyond what I wasn't given.

 

[...]

 

I didn't need the GL experience, let me tell ya that. Because it broke a lot of illusions that I still held dear in my heart. You come to believe in fantasies -- you believe people when they say that they like you, that they respect your work. You believe that people whom you once trusted would always stay the same -- and that's not the case. Life changes people, experience changes people. A lot of my illusions were cracked when I went through that experience. I didn't need to go there. And I look back on it and I say it was not a good experience, but I'm grateful that I was able to not see it as a tragedy. Listening to you say the things you're saying, I feel embarrassed or humble by how I approached it, but it was good that I was able to do that. Because otherwise it could have been just torture.

 

I saw Nancy Grahn at the recent Emmys, and we both just stood there and looked at each other and went, "Miss it, don't you?" -- meaning Santa Barbara. We were on cloud nine with that show. And it's only through the experiences I had at GL that I can look at something now so far away as SB or even so close as AMC and go, "Thank you, God." Sometimes it takes experiences like that to bring you to your knees and make you go, "All right, maybe I wasn't as thankful as I should have been."

 

[...]

 

The whole nighttime thing reminded me that I do not enjoy auditioning. I enjoy acting. I've never been a fan of dressing up in a big black suit in 98-degree L.A. weather, going into a room and trying to strut my stuff for a director or producer by reading a scene with somebody's assistant who could care less about how they read the material. The whole experience rubbed me the wrong way. It's all about the process, not the work -- it's about what you look like, it's about going to the right cocktail parties. I don't enjoy it. [...] I don't feel I've crossed over that bridge and then burned it behind me. I would love to do those other things. But at the time of my development deal, I remember looking at the list of CBS projects that were available to me and there was only one -- Nick's Game, with Richard Grieco -- that had a strong woman. And I remember the people at CBS saying to me, "If you don't take this one, there's nothing else." And I remember thinking, "I really hate being in this position: Do the part of the chick lawyer who chases after the cool guy -- or be paid off and do nothing at all." Well, I don't want to be paid off, I want to do the work. And I had it much easier than actresses without development deals -- it put me in the game without having to do a Riverdance to be seen. But there's nothing about a development deal that says the material is actually going to be any good.

 

After that whole Guiding Light mess, how could you possibly work for Jill Farren Phelps if she took over AMC?

 

I have heard from [she names source but requests it be kept off the record] that she is definitely coming here.

 

Do you feel...?

 

[She interrupts.] A sense of fear.

 

I was going to say, do you feel what happened at GL could happen here? Over there you were new; at AMC you're firmly established. You are one of the ones who drives this show. It's hard to imagine that it could happen again. Now, feel free to be very careful how you respond to this: Your no-character, no-storyline situation at GL could have changed in a heartbeat if JFP had wanted it to change. She could have very easily ordered that you be moved to the front burner. The whole thing seemed very personal.

 

It was never going to be [front burner], and I knew that soon after I got there. I was a ticket. A tactic of negotiation. I was a game piece.

 

How so? So JFP could get A Martinez?

 

No, [so JFP could get] a new contract. "I'll bring this gun in and it'll change everything around."

 

 

Edited July 21, 20205 yr by Vee

2 hours ago, Vee said:

Barbara Crampton is a goddess mostly known for her brilliant work in genre film these days, where she's having a huge career resurgence these last ten years. But she was a genre legend in the 80s too, before and during her soap years. I don't know why she didn't work on GL but any show that could fumble her versatility and extreme engagement is beyond me. That woman can play anything.

Absolutely and it is a reminder that people forget sometimes there is a LOT that goes into why a recast or even a character fails.
Sure, sometimes, the actor is bad. But sometimes the actor is great but the writing sucks. Or the actor is great and the writing is great but it is just a bad fit - it is casting director's mistake.

In this case, I think the writing was weak by then but she was just very very wrong for the role. Being blonde and a kick-ass actress does not automatically make one Mindy and whoever made that call - either casting director or producers who wanted to land a name made a mistake.
 

 

Also this:

 

Justin Deas does. He flies by the seat of his pants, and has his ass on fire every day of the week and it doesn't matter if everyone is along for the ride.

Yeah, but that can also come off as self-indulgence.

 

God bless her.

I wish that MW site highlighted the interviewer’s questions in bold or something. It’s usually easy to figure out who’s saying what, but still. Like that line about self-indulgence seems like it came from the interviewer.

Edited July 21, 20205 yr by Faulkner

Barbara Crampton was never really given much of a chance at GL. Mindy was as bland as possible, stuck in a dull relationship with a man who had to be the center of story attention at all times. It didn't help that she barely got to work with the best of the Lewis family, like Jordan Clarke and Larry Gates. And she just never felt like Mindy - she was too California, too Hollywood. 

 

In her last few months in the role she finally clicked, thanks to Rick's return, but it was too late. 

 

The same happened with Marcy Walker, oddly enough.

From a writer's perspective, it just makes it ten times harder to distinguish a character on the strength of her own personality if she is coming in, right away, as part of a couple or is getting entré via another character, the way Tangie did with Josh.  I am absolutely opposed to introducing a character in this manner because it rarely works, it usually flops.  Like I said upthread, Tangie came onto the canvas as something of an appendage to Josh and her character was never fully developed, she was kind of just there.

 

Nia Long could probably write a short story on how a character gets wasted on daytime. Kat went from vital to lacking vital signs on the show's canvas. During one of those reunion livestreams, Melissa Hayden very bluntly stated that Nia was unhappy on the show. My guess, is that this occurred around end of '93 into '94 when the character had zilch impact on the show.

 

The easiest way to make use of Barbara Crampton's talents would have been to create an entirely new character for her. Maybe a distant Lewis kin or even a Reardon relative or hey, a Bauer if they felt so strongly about connecting her to a core family (which wouldn't be necessary, imo).  BC had great chemistry with Vanessa, I wouldn't have minded seeing her a some Chamberlin relative.

Edited July 21, 20205 yr by DramatistDreamer

re: Marcy Walker. It's so rare to see an actor/actress be so honest about BTS stuff. I give her so much credit for openly admitting JFP used her to keep her job as EP. There was no reason to bring Marcy Walker onto GL in terms of storyline. It felt as if JFP were punishing MW for some reason even down to the name of her character.

 

Amelia Marshall had something nice to say about everyone except for Nia Long. She didn't answer anything about Nia Long and kept it moving. 

 

I think Crampton could have worked as Mindy but she was saddled with terrible stories: the Joe Lando nonsense was the worst. I felt sorry for Crampton. Who is going to invest in a storyline when you know one person is going to be leaving after a certain time? 

3 hours ago, Faulkner said:

I wish that MW site highlighted the interviewer’s questions in bold or something. It’s usually easy to figure out who’s saying what, but still. Like that line about self-indulgence seems like it came from the interviewer.

 

It did, which is why I highlighted the interviewer and not MW.

 

1 hour ago, chrisml said:

I think Crampton could have worked as Mindy but she was saddled with terrible stories: the Joe Lando nonsense was the worst. I felt sorry for Crampton. Who is going to invest in a storyline when you know one person is going to be leaving after a certain time? 

 

I still don't understand what the hell Joe Lando's weird short run was about. More info is welcome.

Edited July 22, 20205 yr by Vee