42 minutes ago, Khan said:

That makes sense, @Soaplovers.  I think the producers should have addressed that issue, too.  Val had been through every parent's worst nightmare.  Getting the twins back seemed to put a nice bow on everything, but it really shouldn't have.  We should've seen Val struggling even after getting Betsy and Bobby back.  Val should've been paranoid about losing them again to the point where she refuses to leave the house without them or have them sleep in another bedroom.  And Ben should've been beside himself (again) over how to handle the situation.

Of course, being the cruel bastard that I am, I would've had Ben convince Val to leave the twins at home with Lilimae or one of Karen's sons for an evening out with Mack and Karen, only to have Ben and Val return home that night to discover that the twins have been abducted yet again.

So many possibilities with that scenario, which could have happened at any time throughout Season 7. It could be one of the Empire Valley people, letting Gary know that they mean business. Or either Joshua before his death or a crazy fan after his death. Or an unbalanced Cathy or Lilimae. Or even save it for the end of the season and have Bobby and Betsy, not Karen, be held by Phil Harbert.

After that, though, Bobby and Betsy would never be allowed to be kidnapped again. Wouldn't want to overdo it.

I'm watching season 6.

Its interesting how differently you see shows as an adult and as a teen.

I find Cathy and Joshua so dull. Cathy is just a dull version of CJ.  Joshua is an [!@#$%^&*].

The whole Galveston story is boring   I lost interest in it pretty quickly. 

The best part is Val story.

Season 5 was better!

Edited May 18, 20232 yr by Soapsuds

@Soapsuds What did you think of Ava Gardner's arc?

2 minutes ago, kalbir said:

@Soapsuds What did you think of Ava Gardner's arc?

I haven't gotten to her episodes but when I saw the episodes as a teen I remember not liking her. I didn't care for her story.

Edited May 18, 20232 yr by Soapsuds

@Soapsuds Knots Landing being more community-based, its not the the type of soap you'd expect to see a messy wealthy matriarch.

5 minutes ago, kalbir said:

@Soapsuds Knots Landing being more community-based, its not the the type of soap you'd expect to see a messy wealthy matriarch.

As I rewatch the show I've tired of Greg already. So seeing his family annoyed me. He shouldn't have lasted longer on the show than Laura.

Actually, @Soapsuds, I think William Devane's performances as Greg Sumner helped me get through several of the later seasons.  I never get tired of watching how he approaches dialogue.  He has this ability to say the most normal things in the most abnormal but surprising ways.

Edited May 18, 20232 yr by Khan

Devane was a like a long lost Kennedy. 

19 hours ago, Khan said:

That makes sense, @Soaplovers.  I think the producers should have addressed that issue, too.  Val had been through every parent's worst nightmare.  Getting the twins back seemed to put a nice bow on everything, but it really shouldn't have.  We should've seen Val struggling even after getting Betsy and Bobby back.  Val should've been paranoid about losing them again to the point where she refuses to leave the house without them or have them sleep in another bedroom.  And Ben should've been beside himself (again) over how to handle the situation.

Of course, being the cruel bastard that I am, I would've had Ben convince Val to leave the twins at home with Lilimae or one of Karen's sons for an evening out with Mack and Karen, only to have Ben and Val return home that night to discover that the twins have been abducted yet again.

We did see a hint of that during Val's 'poor Jill' rant after Jill spoke to the twins and asked them not to tell her.

And let's not forget the whole reason for Val's breakdown was thinking she lost her 2nd chance at being a mom after having Lucy taken from her.  And add to that no one believing her that she heard the twins cry..and you just knew she would crack.

She could survive losing Gary both times since she managed to pull herself up by the boot straps and made a life for herself...but losing her 2nd chance at motherhood (not from the babies dying, but being stolen)..out of the question.

In fact, season 8 Jean Hackney story would have been a bit better had she threatened to harm or take the twins due to Ben not adhering to her orders to kill Greg.  So Val would resent Ben..Ben would do anything to protect Val/twins..and Laura/Val's friendship would be affected.  And perhaps I would have killed Ben...who died to protect Val/twins.

And it would be an organic obstacle for Val/Gary since she would always put Ben on a higher pedestal then Gary going forward...and feel guilt for resenting Ben.

On 5/17/2023 at 7:06 PM, Soapsuds said:

I find Cathy and Joshua so dull. Cathy is just a dull version of CJ.  Joshua is an [!@#$%^&*].

I thought Joshua had a terrifying intensity that fascinated me at the time.  It seemed so contemporary to have this charismatic evangelical and his gospel-singing wife who eclipsed his fame (I doubt a network would dare to risk alienating its religious base today by telling a similar story).  Everyone around him is thinking about profits, but he is a manically true believer  I really enjoyed that plot, and I thought it was a creative and unique story for primetime.

One of my favorite movies of all time is Network and this plot reminded me of Faye Dunaway and Howard Beale dynamic. I really liked Abby's subtext throughout the story.  At first, she approaches Joshua like he's a rube that will be easy to manipulate, a mistake that she often made about the men in her life.  Then, she tries to bond with him as if they both know that all of his preachings are fraudulent.  And, finally, she comes to realize that he's nuts. 

Edited May 19, 20232 yr by j swift

On this we will agree, but I won't repeat myself more than usual as I've gone over most of my thoughts on it in the last few pages. But yes, I think the Joshua story is excellent through Season 6 at least.

12 hours ago, Khan said:

Actually, @Soapsuds, I think William Devane's performances as Greg Sumner helped me get through several of the later seasons.  I never get tired of watching how he approaches dialogue.  He has this ability to say the most normal things in the most abnormal but surprising ways.

Devante could do anything and could bring even the most boring actors to life (Melinda Culea comes to mind). I still hate we never got to see the rest of the Val/Sumner storyline that started in season 13. That was a pairing I never knew I needed, but their chemistry was insane and I wish we could’ve seen that play out. It would’ve really enhanced the final season. 

23 minutes ago, Chris B said:

I still hate we never got to see the rest of the Val/Sumner storyline that started in season 13. That was a pairing I never knew I needed, but their chemistry was insane and I wish we could’ve seen that play out. It would’ve really enhanced the final season. 

Was the original idea that they might go there romantically? That could've been wild.

13 hours ago, Khan said:

Actually, @Soapsuds, I think William Devane's performances as Greg Sumner helped me get through several of the later seasons.  I never get tired of watching how he approaches dialogue.  He has this ability to say the most normal things in the most abnormal but surprising ways.

I would agree. I did lose some interest by the final few seasons (which was true for the show as a whole - I am not even sure how much of late season 13 and 14 I have gone through), but I do not think I could have gotten through 1988-1991 without Devane. He managed to make what was on paper a very unsympathetic character feel very genuine to me, especially his love for his daughters. I knew that my moral compass for Knots-world had been shattered for good when I kept willing him to take Meg back from the home of happy DIRTY COP DIRTY COP DIRTY COP sanctimony.

Edited May 19, 20232 yr by DRW50

William Devane had a commanding presence from his first episode, but I don't think he took over the show. 

Of Greg's main pairings (Abby, Laura, Paige), the only one I thought was genuine love was Laura.