Loving/The City Discussion Thread

[Soaplovers]

In regards to Loving's identity... I remember my mom tell me that when the show first premiered, the first thing she thought of when she saw the show was an 80's version of Love of Life (since the last few years of that soap had strong ties to the university, etc).

Loving should have been conceived as a Twin Peaks based around a university with lots of curruption, drugs, rape, etc amongst the students, faculty, and the families of said students.

[EricMontreal22]

dc I admit I'm biased because Trucker was one of my first soap crushes. You're right it prob was a bit too generic and safe, even during times it had strong writing (after the first year which wasn't safe--until the final year of course which wasn't either).

[Sapounopera]

I am loving all this LOVING talk

Roger and Merril were a horrible couple. I liked the Forbes family though, it's too bad that the show gave up on them so soon. There was so much potential. Roger and Ann were far more interesting than Clay and Gwyneth as a couple and Christine Tudor would be great as a recast Ann. I never cared for Clay Alden, I always thought his story was insane and I never bought the Clay/Alex mess.

I remember falling in love with Doug and Edy at first, but then their storyline became way too dark. Don't get me started on Jonathan and Dolly and the snake..

Does anyone remember Art Hidman's kids? Frank and Tally? All of the sudden he got a family and his kids were involved with the younger group for about five seconds.

This show never understood how lucky it was to have Roya as Ava. This character could so easily become a joke and she made it work

I loved Trisha/Steve/Cecelia. The problem with LOVING was that it changed direction every six months without having a solid core (like B&. The early years were great, but I gave up on the show in 1989. Or to be honest, Greek TV gave up on the show after airing the 1989 episodes, but I wasn't really that upset..

[Paul Raven]

Jumping to March 26th 1985. Sorry to be all over the place with these summaries...

Trisha urges Steve to visit Harry in jail.Jim helps out. Gwyneth corners Steve at the mansion and questions Steve,beginning with a request for his surname...As son of the man who kidnapped Shana and almost killed Jim Gwyn is on the offensive,causing Steve to rush out on Trisha and her mom. Trish follows and pleads not to let her mom come between them. They admit their feelings and shyly kiss.

Steve gets a cold reception from Harry and Trisha has to deal with an angry Gwyneth,who also has to deal with a failed seduction attempt with Keith. She does steal the lab keys but Keith notices and intercepts her. Gwyneth pleads with Keith not to phone Mike as Claude has forced her to do it.Keith relents and decides to help Gwyneth by creating a fake formula that will cost Claude millions.Later she hands it over to Claude who warns her that if she betrays him,he'll expose her numerous affairs to Cabot.

Against her better judgement Lorna meets up with Link. Sparks fly and they end up throwing drinks in each other's faces.Cabot hears rumours of a takeover and Curtis asks Lorna to use Link's interest in her to find out about his business dealings.

Rita Mae and Tony embark on a passionate affair.

Shana misses the Donovan's anniversary dinner due to work,causing Mike to suggest a rethink of wedding plans.

Cabot intervenes and reminds Mike that her career is important to Shana and part of who she is. Mike relents and apologizes to Shana . Shana confides in Jim about juggling marriage/career and Mike is a little jealous to see them together. he says Jim may not be the most suitable confidante,considering their past,he states, but Shana says Jim is her best friend.

Rita Mae wants to keep the affair secret, but she &Tony run into Link & Lorna at the Hideaway.Link is not impressed with Lorna's needling of Rita Mae and departs. Swallowing her pride,Lorna calls hin to make up.

Lorna tells Cabot that Link told her he's in Corinth to buy a construction company( a lie that Link fed her).Cabot warns Dane who is taken aback by Cabot's gesture but continues with his plan to take over Alden.

A furious Gwyn discovers Trisha cut class to be with Steve at the prison and enlists Isabelle's help in planning a birthday bash for Trisha. Steve is there-to park cars. Suspecting her mother was behind this,Trisha lashes out at Gwyn. Dane steps in and lies to protect Gwyneth,earning him her undying gratitude. Cabot presents Trisha with 1000 shres which Gwyn will control until Trisha is of age.Dane tells Gwyn he intends to collect when she promises to return the favour.

At the party,Cabot summons Ava for a private chat where they reach a shaky understanding. Curtis seethes at the sight of Colby and Keith and Steve knocks out Rod,Trisha's preppy date.

Steve rushes out and Gwyn and Trisha get into another argument,resulting in Gwyneth slapping Trisha due to her defiance.

Later,Gwyneth panics at the thought that Clay may be calling Trisha.

Edited March 29, 2011 by Paul Raven

[DRW50]

Elsa I love your memories. I feel like I'm watching the episodes thanks to you. What did you think of Lisa Peluso's Ava?

Paul Raven thanks for the recaps. They take so much time and yet you always have more.

Wow Gwyn seemed like a monster. By the time I started watching she was this guilt-ridden and sad woman and now I kind of know why.

I wonder if AW borrowed some of this with Sam/Amanda (they met when Sam was a valet at a Cory family party).

I still wonder if they got rid of Steve to basically bring in a studlier version of him in Trucker. Or did the actor want to leave?

Who was Link? The drink-throwing sounds so cheesy. Almost as bad as the he slaps her/she slaps him type of thing.

dc thank you so much for your answers! Rita Lloyd again. I remember some fans criticized Marland's GL because Lucille was written out, but clearly Marland was fond of Rita, as he cast her on all his shows.

Edited March 29, 2011 by CarlD2

[Paul Raven]

Link Beecham was played by Phil McGregor -first SORASED Rick on GL and then Brian Robert Taylor ex Tyler CAP.His mother Rebecca was played by Jane Powell and there was also Judd,who I think was abrother and Zona who Lorna was accused of murdering. I'm sure DC can fill in the gaps

This from SOD Oct 6th 87

Gwyneth is not happy that Harry-her ex lover is engaged to Ann,but Harry warns her not to cause any trouble.Gwyn insists to Ann that they are too different for the marriage to succeed.

Jack vows not to see Lily again,let alone sleep with her but Ms Slater is unfazed.Stacey is noticing a change in Jack,ever since his trip to NY with Lily.Jack is finding it hard to not think of Lily,especially when she is constantly slinking around the office. Stacey throws Lily a housewarming party and leaves Jack and Lily alone to get back to the baby. Jack can't resist making love to Lily. He guiltily returns to Stacey,unable to make love to his wife.

Stacey is disturbed and Lily thrilled to have seduced jack.

When Marty and April are out, Alan sneaks in and steals some of Marty's stuff. They contact the police.Alan returns and takes some of April's freshly washed clothes.

April hears from Alan that Ned is in hospital. alan offers to drive her but on the way,april realises they're going the wrong way.The next thing she knows,April awakens in a nicely furnished room. A deranged Alan says he'll be taking care of her now.

Ned doesn't believe April has deserted him and searches for her.Marty blames herself for april's disappearance and hits the bottle.Jim feels for her. Alan is angry april tried to escape.

Alan tells April that the guy who got her pregnant was his brother Adam and he sympathises with the pain and rejection she suffered while pregnant.April isn't buying Alan's claims that he wants to protect her.

Trisha tries to discourage Clay from an involvement with Ava.Clay assures his daughter he'll take it slow but turns around and asks Ava to marry him. She joyfully accepts.news spreads and Trisha expresses her displeasure and Gwyn says he'll be miserable but Clay is steadfast in his love for Ava.she's thrilled to fulfill her childhood dream of living in the mansion.

Jack is forced to work late with Lily and insists its business only from now on.But Lily is insistent and they again make love.

Newlyweds Steve and Trisha are thrilled when Cabot tells them he has bought Zack and Lorna's house for them.

[DRW50]

Thanks again for this. It's funny because I just saw a photo of Phil when he played Rick - I didn't realize he was on Loving too.

So how long were Trisha and Steve married before he was killed? I wonder if they should have waited longer.

It's always like another world to remember soap stories where the husband cheated and it was out of lust and not because the wife is a failure or because the other woman drugged him or whatever.

I wish I could see more of Gwyn/Ann. I think I just saw a bit in the 1987 episode on Youtube.

[Sapounopera]

Lisa Peluso was fine as Ava, but she was still Wendy Wilkins to me. Another problem was that I didn't care for the Clay/Alex storyline at all and the fact that Ava was no longer a part of the "younger crowd" with Jack, Stacey, Curtis and the others. That and the fact that Ava became a rich wife and mother spending too much time at Clay's office sooner than I expected. She should have been involved with Jack, Curtis and Stacey a little longer.

Linc was Rebecca's son and Zona's husband. When Zona was murdered, Lorna was accused of killing her. There was another Beachum brother for five minutes, who was involved with Ava. I never understood what the plans for this family were...

Steve and Trisha reminded me of Joe and Kelly on Santa Barbara for some reason. Steve was a boy, Trucker was the cover of a romance book. I liked Steve better, because of his connections to Harry, Kate, Ava and Cecelia and the fact that he was a regular guy. Trucker was involved in the Clay/Alex mess, which was another problem for me.

Edited March 29, 2011 by Elsa

[DRW50]

Would you agree with Roya that the character already changed before she left?

Was the other brother Wade?

What did you think of Jane Powell?

(If I've asked this before I'm sorry, I'm too lazy to look through the pages)

[Paul Raven]

Judd was the other brother, played by Dan Doby and Neil Zevnik.

[DRW50]

When I see them I think it's interesting because he really doesn't look like the typical hunk. I think it makes for more believable tension because you can't rely on a prop. It's sort of like - not comparing them! - when Liz Taylor married Larry Fortensky, who was a poor guy and who also wasn't a pin-up. I just wish I could see a bit of the character. I also wish I could see more of the family. Aside from Ava and Kate and Ally I mostly just have seen people like Carly, who looked a bit glamorous to be part of the family.

[Sapounopera]

I think there were three brothers. Linc, Wade and Jude or Jarrett or something like that. Perhaps the show was trying to build a brand new family with Rebecca as the matriarch and Lorna & Ava being involved with her sons. I think there was a period Cabot and Isabelle were written out. Could it be that there were big plans for Rebecca and her boys?

[DRW50]

That makes sense. I wonder just how many of the failed attempts at core families there were on Loving, or when they were just a few characters with no plans to expand (like Casey and his father or Dinah Lee and her sister).

I wonder if they ever thought of recasting Isabelle with Jane Powell.

What did you think of the various Curtises and Lornas and Anns and Lilys?

Edited March 29, 2011 by CarlD2

[Sapounopera]

I liked Linden Ashby's Curtis. However the show turned him into a nice guy too soon by pairing him with Lotty. Jack and Curtis should have been fighting for years and Rick Stewart Alden's storyline could have been given to Curtis up to a point. Chris Marcantel was ok, Stan Albers was not really Curtis but a brand new character and Burke Moses was just boring. (I have to remind you that these were my thoughts as a teenager, I don't know how I would feel about all this today)

Susan Walters was fine as a vixen, but O'Hara's version was very boring. Her pairing with Zach was not what the character needed. And then there was Zach's daughter Kelly and her teenaged friend, who reminded me of B&B's Rocco.

Lily #2 was a brand new character, she was more of a Lorna.

I liked Shannon Eubanks more as Ann. She looked more aristocratic and cold. If the show wanted to recast they should go with Christine Tudor. I think the structure of the Alden family was always a problem...

[dc11786]

Soaplovers, I think the college setting is interesting, but I don't know how writers made it work.I know other soaps did it successfully ('Secret Storm' and 'Where the Heart Is' come to mind). If Roger / Garth were going to fight for power at the university, I could see where the story could have worked. I think a college campus does allow a writer to work with class conflict and diversity, but I'm not clear if those were utilized.

Elsa, I've only read about "Loving" so I appreciate all your comments In the 1990s, I think Gwyn / Clay worked better when Dennis Parlato took over the role and the couple was more mature and looked back and realized all the mistakes they'd made in their lives. Yet, Roger / Ann were probably on the same path.

I thought Art Hindman's son was named Dave. I've seen him listed as Dave in summaries. He was involved in the April / Ned / Kristen teenage set. I didn't realize Tally was Art's daughter. I figured she was the mother. Thanks for this information.

Gwyn / Trisha had a non-traditional relationship. Mommy usually bedded Trisha's men before Trisha got to them. Gwyn slept with Jeff Hartman before Trisha did. I think Gwyn and Trucker might have bedded down offscreen. Gwyn also slept with Giff Bowman before Trisha set up house with him.

I believe Steve was killed off during November 1987 sweeps. Trucker was introduced a year later. There were new writers, and I believe a new EP by that time. I think Steve left because his contract was up. Steve was introduced in December 1984. Three year contracts were the norm then, right?

Linc Beecham helped finance Dane Hammond's takeover of Alden Enterprises in 1985, but also was sleeping with Lorna Forbes. Obviously, when Dane / Linc's connection was revealed, Lorna was furious as she did love her grandfather. It was a nice romantic complication to the corporate storyline. Linc's brother Judd was also involved in financing the takeover, but didn't have much story when he appeared in 1985.

Linc arrived in January 1985 and Judd might have been recurring around the same time. In the summer or fall, Rebekah Beecham, Link's mama, was introduced. Rebekah knew about Linc's marriage to Zona Beecham, which Linc had kept secret from Lorna. Zona stalked Lorna before she was seen. Zona arrived and faked a pregnancy. Zona was looney and her insanity was fueled by Rebekah, who was looking to get her hands or had gotten her hands on Zona's land holdings. Zona killed herself, but Lorna was accused of murder. Rebekah had in her possession Zona's diary, which would exonerate Lorna.

During the trial in the spring of 1986, Zach Conway was introduced. Zach was the lawyer who represented Lorna during the trial and fell in love with her. Linc faded during the trial and so did Rebekah, but Judd Beecham returned to be Ava's latest catch. Ava had recently divorced Curtis and was hoping Judd would be her next meal ticket, but he only wanted a sexual relationship. He didn't last long.

This stuff Paul posted directly precedes the 1987 youtube episode.

Steve and Trisha weren't married long. Trisha married Steve in August 1987 and Steve died in December 1987.

I'm not sure if Nixon had big plans for the Beecham family, but Linc was written out quickly when Zach ws introduced. I'm surprised the show didn't try Linc / Ava first.

Kelly's pal was Rob Carpenter. The German dubs on youtube feature Rob / Kelly.

Carl, the woman in the kitchen from the beauty shot is Lauren Marie Taylor, Stacey.Forbes. This would be from the Lily / Jack / Stacey days. In February 1988, Lily would be just about to reveal the truth.