Loving/The City Discussion Thread

[DRW50]

From the August 22, 1989 Digest.

[dc11786]

Nixon brought Doug Donovan back as a spoiler for the Shana / Jim romance. By the fall of 1985, Noreen and Mike had practically reconcilled. Jim / Shana need another obstacle once the Jonathan Maitland story ended. Doug basically replaced his brother in the Shana / Jim / Mike triangle, but with less importance. Mike / Jim were friends and the deception seems more potent than Shana with the other Donovan brother.

Writing out Doug in December 1984 seemed like a practical decision; the show really revamped itself during that month. Keith Lane came to town, Steve Solowsky was brought into the picture, Trisha and Gwyn returned home from Europe, and a lot of the old guard was written out (Edy / Doug / Jonathan / Billy). Other than Stacey, the Donovan presence in town was weak. Doug's departure was probably internal since the show was going in a direction where Doug wasn't necessary.

Placing blame seems unnecessary as it's entirely possible Mulcahey and Marland didn't know how to flesh out Nixon's weak prostitution story and its subplots. I think the consensus seems to be Merrill / Roger was doomed for failure even if the audience enjoyed the pairing because a certain section of the population would never be able to get past the fact Merrill was a homewrecking hussy.

To an extent, Marland and Nixon were too different for Nixon to continue Marland stories or Marland to continue Nixon stories. Nixon's strength lies in characters whereas Marland seems to be in elaborate plots. It should have been a beautiful marriage, but ultimately, neither seemed to be able to make their strengths shine. Marland's final months (December 1984-May 1985) was his best work, while Nixon's 1994 run was her best work on 'Loving.'

Ultimately, Nixon and Marland ended up having the same problem though. They didn't know what the show was about. Nixon tried to deemphasize the corporate element of the class conflict and instead focus more on a romanticized class conflict, but ultimately the results were mixed. Steve's statuatory rape love affair with Cece Thompson thwarting the Steve / Trisha romance seems fairly well remembered, while Keith's romance with reformed hooker Dolly Jones is barely mentioned. In what I suspect were her final months, Nixon tried to make the show about young people again with auto mechanic Ned Bates, teen hooker April Hathaway, and bitchy Kristen (Teri Polo's 'Loving' character).

[Paul Raven]

Summary of Loving synopsis from SOD April 24th 1984 (probably early March onscreen)

Tony tries to make peace with Stacey, saying he never meant to hurt her.Stacey is too hurt to be responsive,feeling stupid and naive to believe he loved her.Lorna defends Tony to Stacey, saying that Tony was only trying to explain that he loves her (Lorna) and what he felt for Stacey was loyalty and gratitude.Stacey lashes out at Lorna,

Later,Stacey wails to Rose that she can't concentrate on her studies and Coach Bristow is coming down on her. Stacey says being a 'good girl' has left her alone while Lorna gets to have Tony.

Curtis offers sympathy,saying Tony only married Lorna because of her pregnancy.He knows how she feels, having lost Lily.

Upset with her living conditions, Lorna begs Isabelle to convince Tony to move to the Alden mansion.Before Lorna and Tony fly to Washington to tell her parents the news, Isabelle asks if Lorna had to get married. Lorna denies it.Lorna upgrades their tickets from coach to first class and lies to Tony that her grandparents arranged it as a gift.

Merrill tells Noreen of her job offer-the opportunity of a lifetime. She encourages Noreen to get to know Warren. Before a dinner date, they have drinks with Merill and Jim and discuss Corinth becoming a test city for gambling.Unfortunately, new property acquired by Forbes construction is almost certain to become a major highway and that makes the rumors all the more credible, Warren states.

Seeing a painting by Ann in Mike's apartment, Shana asks Curtis if the Forbes marriage was troubled. She later overhears Curtis tell Lorna about her questions and Roger and Merrill's affair. She confronts Jim,calling him a hypocrite in light of the fact that his sister was having an affair with a married man.Jim responds that is acompletely different set of circumstances.The next night, Jim sees Dane leaving Shana's room and is surprised.

Jack questions Curtis over him seeing Stacey and Curtis says he's just a friend.When Curtis and Stacey come face to face with Tony at the student union, Curtis advises Stacey to deal with it and tell herself it's over. Stacey tries, but her heart isn't in it.

Upset that Tony may have married Lorna because of her money and social standing, Cabot confronts Jack on the subject ,who assures him Tony has principles.

Back from Washington,Tony agrees with Lorna that they have to find an apartment. She goes straight to her grandparents and requests the Alden gatehouse.Cabot is reluctant because he senses Tony won't accept.Lorna counters they can live rent free in exchange for repairs and renovation.Lorna sells the idea to Tony who loves the place and wants to make a good home for the baby,unlike his own upbringing with alcoholic parents.

Lorna's excitement is tempered by the reality of a pregnancy,especially when Shan floats the idea of modelling for Burnell's.

June Slater tells Jack to diregard Lily's letter saying she will be home for Summer. In reality,she is not anywhere ready to leave the sanitarium. June sadly tells Jack the best thing to do is forget Lily altogether.

Dane tells Shana her next move is to endear herself to Cabot and get the deeds to the riverfront property. Shana says she will be delighted to get one over on Cabot.

At LaCaramba, Merrill's going away party is in full swing.Noreen enters with Warren,which annoys Mike.who accuses Warren of deliberately working him hard so he less competition for Noreen.Shana distracts Mike before things escalate. The next day, at Dr Turner's office, Mike bumps into Noreen and reveals he's getting help.Mike's dead army buddy Gage appears in a vision and tells Mike he's weak for seeking help. Disturbed,Mike storms out of the office.

[DRW50]

Thank you both.

So was Agnes involved in casting Luke Perry?

I was also wondering if she had any involvement in Roger Howarth joining OLTL, since he'd been on Loving a few years prior and been fired. But she was probably not heavily involved in either show by that time.

So Lorna and Jack were Ann's kids, is that right? I keep forgetting. For some reason I thought Stacy and Lorna were sisters but now I realize that wasn't possible.

I guess this is before Stacey and Jack were together. Who was Tony again?

I wonder what it was like for Susan Keith and James Kiberd working together at this time, as they said they initially hated each other.

Edited March 27, 2011 by CarlD2

[dc11786]

Thanks, Paul, for the summary.This summary seems to pick up exactly where the 1984 youtube episode leaves off.

It's nice to see some of this fleshed out a bit more from the summaries I had read. I knew Jack got a letter from Lily Slater regarding her condition, but I didn't realize June Slater had appeared to tell Jack to move on. I guess June was around a bit longer than I thought.

The Curtis / Stacey situation should have been explored more. I know Curtis initially showed interest in Stacey after returning home in 1983, but that never went anywhere. Curtis spent fall 1983 bedding a waitress named Penny.

I don't know if Nixon was involved with casting Perry. I still haven't gotten a clear sense of when Nixon left and Ellis took over. I did find an article from around June 1987 on the subject of 'Loving's' fourth anniversary. They were critical about her promises from the show's start about dealing with contemporary issues. She says 'Loving' still was doing so. She had Ned tell April she was risking exposing herself to AIDS by prostituting herself and had a summer alcoholism storyline planned. The alcoholism story involved April's cousin, Marty, who was looking after the girl. Jim Vochek was determined to help the woman get her life together, while Marty became a bit smitten with Jim.

My point, overall, is Nixon seemed to be there as late as summer 1987.

Pure speculation on my part, but I think Nixon was involved in the college revamp. I know Addie Walsh was the headwriter and Fran Sears was the executive producer, but I think Nixon was involved with the story. The Cooper Alden plot had shades of Lily Slater to it. Hannah Mayberry was the quintessential Nixonian heroine. I was watching some clips a Rebecca Gayheart fan put up on youtube.

In one episode, Grayson McCouch appeared as an Alden U student who harassed Casey upon learning Giff was Casey's father. Giff was an Alden U professor who had lost his mind and kidnapped Trisha before falling to his death from the AU belfry.

Lorna and Jack were Roger and Ann's children. Jack was adopted. His biological parents were Dane Hammond and Linda Henderson. Linda died in childbirth and her parents, Ada and Haddon, gave the baby to the Forbes to raise and told Dane the child had died.

Tony Perilli was an old friend of Jack Forbes. I don't know how they knew each other. I was once told they were in the orphanage together, but that doesn't make any sense given subsequent information I've been given. Then, I was told they were in boarding school together, but Tony seems too middle class to be at some posh prep school. I suspect they new each other from when Jack was attending school in New Orleans, prior to the start of the series.

Tony hung around for quite some time. Stacey fell for him the minute he hit town, but then Lorna succeeded in getting pregnant and marrying him. The marriage didn't last long at all. Lorna had an abortion, Tony got pissed, and divorce quickly followed. Jack became obsessed with learning about his parentage and turned away from Stacey. Stacey turned to Tony, who was a willing shoulder for her to cry on. Stacey and Tony became engaged, while Jack slept with Ava, who he worked with at Forbes Construction. So, twice in one year, Stacey dealt with a manipulative vixen getting pregnant by her man. Poor Stacey!

On Stacey and Tony's wedding day, Stacey said "I do, Jack." Tony was furious and left her at the altar. He hooked up with Rita Mae Bristow, who was worried about their age difference. Tony didn't care, but eventually Tony and Rita Mae split. By this time, Ava was using Stacey / Jack's affair to wrangle custody of baby Johnny away from Jack so Stacey backed away and took up with Tony so Jack could maintain custody. Tony and Stacey got back together and moved to California together, I think. Eventually, Jack won custody of the baby and married Stacey.

[DRW50]

Thanks so much. So did Lauren Marie-Taylor leave for a while, when Tony and Stacey went to California? Was that a maternity leave?

Who played Tony?

I didn't know June was ever back either. Was Ann Williams still playing her or was she gone by this time?

I'm sorry about the 1989 scan being kind of poor - I was trying something and had a new scanner.

[DRW50]

These are such beautifully acted, shot, and scored scenes. I just love the Kate/Ava relationship. It's crazy how much Kate seems like a perfect blend of Ada and Mona, with a little Liz Foster thrown in.

I can't imagine how viewers at the time got over Roya Megnot's departure. She's so unique. I think Roya said that Ava had already been changed as a character before she left, so perhaps that's why viewers accepted it.

[dc11786]

I'm not sure about the California episodes. Tony and Stacey left in September 1985. Jack joined them in October with Stacey and Jack reuniting and raising Johnny in California. They returned to Corinth around the holidays and stayed. Tony didn't follow.

Peter Radon and Richard McWilliams played the role. McWilliams played the role longer. I think he is the one featured in the 1984 episode on youtube. The character departed in the fall of 1985.

I don't think anyone else played June Slater. I wonder if she simply made a phone call, but it sounds like she was there in person.

The 1989 scan is interesting. I'm not the biggest Trisha / Trucker / Jeff triangle fan. Trisha / Trucker seemed to comfortable. It was a Steve / Trisha redux.

When you were asking about 1988 strike stories, I looked into the 1988 summaries some more. Jeff was introduced during the strike, but Ralph Ellis had to create him. He was introduced early in the scab days. In the beginning, Jeff wasn't a psycho as Millee Taggert / Tom King sold him. Jeff was an arrogant playboy who had money and was determined to make a name for himself in television. He slept with Gwyneth Alden and wanted to be the producer of "Images," the new television program AE was producing. Trisha, now widowed, wanted to work on the program for Jeff, but didn't want Jeff to know that she was Clay's daughter. Jeff / Trisha were slowly falling for one another, while Gwyneth was also attracted to Jeff and actively worked to sabotage the relationship.

Jeff wasn't a saint, by any means, but he seemed an interesting contrast to rather straight as an arrow Trisha. Trisha seemed to soften him, while Gwyn brought out the bad boy in him. It seemed like an interesting situation. Throw in Jeff's father, Charles, a wealthy businessman who had Gwyn's number, and the situation seemed rather interesting. I don't know where anyone was going with all of it, but I think the show may have used Gwyn as a catalyst in two separate triangles (Trisha / Jeff / Gwyn and Charles / Gwyn / Ann). Ann was getting more airtime in the Jack / Stacey / Rick storyline. Plus the Ann / Gwyn rivalry was ripe with the Rick / Jack conflict. There is no real onscreen hint of Ann / Charles so I may be off. King / Taggert offed Charles Hartman and that was the end of that.

I, too, was watching those scenes on youtube last night. They were interesting. I was reminded of the old horror soaps when watching those scenes. They were very atmospheric. The storm was an effective.

Nada Rowland was a very warm presence. There are some beautiful scenes on youtube with Kate / Casey at Belden Pond when Cooper / Ally are together. Kate is very supportive of Casey, while not undermining her feelings for Ally and her happiness.

[EricMontreal22]

Trisha and Trucker were the only (arguable) supercouple the soap had though. LOL I loved them--I was kinda more iffy on Jeff when he returned post asylum and took off with an amnesiac Trish, but I didn't know his history at the time.

Carl, thanks for the link, I hadn't seen those scenes before...

[DRW50]

I'd love to see Trisha/Steve. Steve seems like such an atypical leading man for the 80s. Did the actor want to leave or did they fire him? It seems like Jeff was a more hunky type (especially before he went nuts - there's a beefcake type shot of him in a summer 88 Digest and he looks very good), and then of course Trucker was a big pinup type. Was he hired based on his ATWT run?

The stuff with Gwyn and Charles sounds interesting. I wonder why they killed him off.

Thanks for the extra information about Tony.

They also have another Ava scene on their account (of her going to a lawyer) and some credits sequences. I miss credits - now they seem like they never even existed. I didn't know Loving did that beauty shot of an additional scene. One has a woman I don't recognize wandering her kitchen.

[EricMontreal22]

Agnes always owned Loving personally so did have some say--but by the 80s it seems she had next to no say at OLTL... (one reason she offered to move Carla and her mom to Loving)

Agnes seemed to love the beauty shot--she talks about how important she feels it is to give each episode closure in All Her Children and Loving used them even a bit longer than AMC (I'm pretty sure...)

[Paul Raven]

June 19th 1984 SOD Summary of synopses

Lorna informs Shana she's no longer living at home due to a quarrel with Ann. Shana tells her Ann tried to buy out her modeling contract. Lorna decides to seek Cabot's help but learns he's been rushed to hospital with a heart attack.

Shana contacts Jim,who has been telling the monsignor that his feelings for her have returned.Shana confides in Jim that cabot is her father and her quest for revenge has got her involved with some bad people that she can't break away from.

At the hospital,the sight of Mike with Ann is more than Shana can handle and asks that Jim take her home. She decides to make amends by changing bids to favor Alden. She'll deal with Dane later. She is spotted by Curtis and Mike who are at the office to collect Cabot's will.

Cabot tells Isabelle that Shana is his daughter. Isabelle visits Shana and says she's not sure how to handle this,but persuades Shana to stay in town and keep the secret.

Jack is suspicious after visiting the Hendersons and Ann gives the number of Henley's aunt Millicent,who is reluctant to speak to Jack,but finally relents.

Tony tells Stacey he's divorcing Lorna and wants to at least be friends with Stacey.

As Jonathan has been released from prison,Edy decides to skip town,asking Penny to tell Doug she's gone to Oklahoma.She wants him to have her rag doll Sadie as a keepsake. Meanwhile Jonathan is out to get revenge on Edy and get the doll.

Millicent reveals that Linda was carrying another man's child when she married Henley.As they both died,the secret of Jack's parentage died with them.

Doug tracks Edy down and pleads with her to marry him.Overwhelmed,she agrees.Rose is not sure that the mysterious Edy is good enough for her son.

Jonathan shows up and tells Doug he's Edy's brother.Edy has to play along but alone he tells her he needs the doll as he has sewn a safety deposit box key into it.

Ann overhears Curtis tell Lorna he suspects that Shana is Cabot's mistress.

Cabot asks for Shana's forgiveness for his neglect.He collapses again and Ann blames Shana. When he rallies,he calls his lawyer and with Isabelle as witness divides his estate 3 ways - to Ann,Clay and Shana.

After her trip with Mike and the children for Roger's memorial service,Ann confronts Shana with her suspicions.

When Alden wins a property bid,Dane suspects Shana has changed sides.He asks Harry, now a hotel clerk, to keep an eye on her. Hearing that Jim has been visiting,Dane requests that Harry get compromising photos of the two.

-Does anyone know who played Millicent and Penny?

- Was this Harry the introduction of Harry Sowalsky?

That issue also reported the arrival of Jonathan and Ava,played by Patty Lotz and the departure of Patrick and Noreen.

It staed that Marilyn McIntyre had a 0ne year contract and she said "Considering everyone else who's been written off,I feel I'm in very good company" It sted Ava is a girl from the wrong side of the tracks who is slated to be involved with Jack and that LOV and RH will be pre-empted for the Olympics.

Edited March 28, 2011 by Paul Raven

[DRW50]

Thanks for sharing this. The stuff with Edy/Doug sounds a bit odd. She leaves him a rag doll? I guess it must have had some type of clue. This reminds me of Viki's rag doll on OLTL.

I knew Edge and RH were preempted but I didn't know Loving was.

I wish we could see this stuff with the Shana/Ann conflict.

Dane reformed later on didn't he?

[dc11786]

Trisha and Trucker were one of the show's bigger couples, but they were a big couple on a small show. I'd argue "Loving" was too safe, which was one of the reasons it never really got past the 'generic' soap label. What did Trucker bring to the show that Steve haven't? He was a working class guy who fell in love with Trisha and ran an auto garage. I think Trisha and Steve's wedding in the 1980s was almost as big as Trucker and Trisha's in the 1990s. "Loving" should have done something more bold. If Jeff / Charles had been kept around and integrated into the canvas, the show would have had another wealthy family unit to play off of for a few years. Instead, Jeff became a generic baddie.

Charles Hartman was introduced in July 1988 during the Writer's Strike. Millee Taggart / Tom King arrived in September 1988. Charles was in a car accident in November 1988 and died in December. I think it was clearly a case of a change in TPTB. The Clay / Alex imposter story was in full swing. It was clear Clay Alden had to return to the show to complete the story. Maybe they felt Charles was unnecessary with Clay on the canvas.

Rita Lloyd played Millicent Whitehead. I didn't realize Millicent's nephew, Henley, was married to Linda Henderson, Jack's biological mother. This fleshes that story out a little.

Penny O'Rourke was played by Emily Langworthy. She appeared as early as September 1983.

Harry was Harry Sowolsky. He was the first of the family to appear as Dane's henchman. Harry's niece Ava and sister Kate appeared next.

There was a key in the doll which was somehow tied into the Jonathan Maitland / San Francisco serial murder mystery. It was clearly a Marland mystery plot, but it wasn't very good. Too many day players offed to keep Edy / Doug in the spotlight.

Dane didn't really reform, but he was never really an out and out villain. He was more a poor boy who was trying to make it, but was always being kept down by the wealthy. He was a have-not trying to make a name for himself. At times, I think he was sympathetic having Jack taken from him and genuinely loving Ann. He left town in February 1986 to work for Rebekah Beecham or after swindling her money. Dane's marriage to Ann ended badly, but Dane was a bit of ambigious villain. His problems with the Aldens were legitmate. I believe he was fired because Curtis stole money and framed him or something along those lines. He brought Shana to Corinth to ruin Cabot only to get more entangled with the Aldens through Jack. He returned for some time around 1990-1991. His story was mainly tied to Shana and then he left town.

[Paul Raven]

Thank you DC for your comments and response.

I have some other Loving summaries that I will add to this post. Glad that they can clarify things re the show.