Loving/The City Discussion Thread

[EricMontreal22]

So randolph was the original Clay/Alex? I always thought he was second for some reason...

I agree it's nice to see they tried with Loving. That last one seems almost like a huge advertisement BEGGING people to tune in (and to be fair to ABC, throughout the 90s, despite the damaging quick turnaround of EPs and HWs, it's obvious by who they hired, and what they've said, that ABC *was* trying to bring people to Loving. I mean compare the situation now where AMC has had the same crap EP for 8 or 9 years now, which is I think longer than anyone except when Agnes was EP in the 70s! The OLTL piece you posted from the same issue, about Gottlieb shows the same enthusiasm).

[DRW50]

He was the first Clay then revealed as Alex, then he left and returned.

It does seem like ABC made an effort with Loving. That's what I miss most about the soaps - no one upstairs makes an effort now. Just TRY.

I guess in some cases stability was what was needed, not meddling, but with Loving I'm not sure what could have helped. I just wish they'd figured it out because they had such a good cast.

[DRW50]

This has probably already been answered but do those who were watching then agree with SOD's view that James Horan was too young to play Clay?

Does anyone else get him confused with the guy who played Leo?

[EricMontreal22]

When I started watching I DID get him mixed up with Clay. I suppose seeing his children, he was a bit too young, but it never crossed my mind...

And you're right about their cast... I dunno, I sorta think maybe nothing would have helped raise Loving's ratings (except doing as Agnes wanted and sandwiching it between her other shows). Because often it was very good--and it had a strong cast, but did lack stability in every sense of the word.

[DRW50]

They should have put it between the shows - I think AMC was strong enough then to survive, and that was also when OLTL was starting to climb back up.

It just makes me wonder sometimes because some of that cast was so damn good and yet I've never seen them on soaps since

What did you think of Shana? In the Episodes feature she seems like a spare part, even though she'd been around, off and on, for a long time.

[EricMontreal22]

HAHA poor Tony. How long was he on ATWT? I think he pretty much gave up on acting and is living in some small city as a carpenter or something random now...

It woulda been great if they coulda ended up with him and Trisha reunited--but Noelle leaving the show hurt that a lot.

[DRW50]

He was on ATWT during the strike, mid-1988. You can see him in some Youtube clips from that time. He worked in the stables. He seemed to have an agenda, and he made a pass at Lily and at Pam. His name was Spence. I'm surprised Marland didn't keep him, as Marland loved that type of look - the Snyder boys, for instance.

Did you like Trucker with Dinah Lee?

Did you ever see any of Trisha/Steve? I wish I could see them. He looks like such an average joe type of guy, it's very refreshing.

[LoyaltoAMC]

There was actually talk in the early 90s to move AMC back a half-hour to 12:30 to compete directly with Y&R, and cushion Loving in the 1:30 slot before OLTL. I actually remember Susan Keith and James Kiberd talking about this in some SOD interview back around that time. The feeling was that AMC was strong enough to go head to head with Y&R and hold its own, but it obviously never happened. I think ABC really tried with Loving because of the Agnes Nixon pedigree but it could never get going. I really enjoyed the show for the first four or five years. I was literally in love with the show, but then pretty much stopped watching, probably around the time Millee Taggart and Tom King took over. Must've been around 1988. It was just all over the map, I grew frustrated with it.

[DRW50]

What are some of your memories? Do you think getting rid of the Vocheks and Donovans was a mistake?

I keep meaning to find the Digest summaries I have from some of the 80s - when I post them they will hopefully be a memory jog. I just wish this was available.

[EricMontreal22]

I'll have to check youtube--he DOES have the Marland look, for sure.

WOST had at least one episode with Trisha and Steve--I liked them from it, I also liked her with psycho Jeff (though having her go off air with him out of the institution and her amnesiac was kinda as odd exit...) There was another episode with AVa and Paul when he was in a wheelchair, which was an interesting match I thought.

Dinah Lee and Trucker actually... weren't bad. But it wasn't Trucker and Trisha.

[EricMontreal22]

The late 80s till 91 or 92 were really a mess, from what I can tell. The city became too corporate and big, lost the campus and small town feel entirely, etc.

Edited March 4, 2011 by EricMontreal22

[DRW50]

I mostly associate Ava with Alex so it's always strange to know she had so much else story. I'd like to see the stuff with Paul. I remember reading about the love scene the show did for them after he was paralyzed, which most soaps would never try.

[LoyaltoAMC]

I definitely think they got rid of Merrill Vochek way too soon. From what I read, and this may have been mentioned upthread, ABC expected Loving to be huge success right off the bat. When that didn't happen, I think they ran a bit scared and decided to get rid of Merrill, their central heroine, in favor of a more traditional (translation: romantic) heroine in Shana, hoping that would raise ratings. Shana essentially replaced Merrill in that capacity. Also when they dropped John Shearin as Roger Forbes, whom nobody seemed to like, in favor of Peter Brown, the whole Merrill-Roger affair fell apart. In keeping with giving the show a more "romantic" feel, I think they de-emphasized the Donovans and Forbeses, who seemed like average (translation: dull) people, in favor of families with more of a stark class difference (the OTT Aldens with Clay, Gwyneth and Tricia; the poorer than dirt Sowolsky-Rescotts), again to give the show a more romantic feel. This is all JMO, but this is what I suspect happened. From a creative standpoint, I don't think it was necessarily a mistake to make these changes, which were obviously dictated by their focus group research. I think the show maintained its tone during this transitional phase, which I believe Marland guided. I think when Millee and Tom came aboard as HWs, the tone of the show began to change. I can't put my finger on it, but it just became darker IMO, and the storylines were terrible. So many EPs and HWs came and went that any vision the show originally had was totally lost.

[DRW50]

I didn't know Peter Brown was on this show. Was he any good? I didn't care for him on OLTL and I've only ever seen him on one other show, B&B (his B&B character was a non-starter so it didn't matter). I know he was also on Y&R and on DAYS. It seems like only his DAYS character was popular.

So you think all that about the haircut was just a story?

I wonder what plans Marland may have had for Lily, since he wrote heavily for Jennifer Ashe for the 4 years she was at ATWT. I don't know a lot about the teens at the time. I know that Lauren-Marie Taylor said she was meant to have a small role and then the show liked her and gave her more to do.

Do you think all the stuff about Ava passing off the baby and the pillow baby and all that was any good?

I've wondered sometimes whether they should have gotten rid of Jack Forbes or not.

What role did Cabot have before he was written out (the first time)?

[LoyaltoAMC]

I think they brought Peter Brown in as Roger just to tie up loose ends. I don't think they had any story plans in mind for him. Brown's son was my cousin's college roommate. My cousin met him several times and has said that he was a very nice guy.

The Lily thing was of course siderailed by the whole "Something About Amelia" thing, which I'm sure was discussed upthread. Also with Garth gone, I wonder where any conflict in a Lily-Jack romance would have come from. I'm sure Marland had plans beyond the initial incest stuff, but we'll never know. I don't know if Marland was forced to kill Garth in order to truncate the story, or if that was his plan all along. Lauren Marie Taylor always seemed likeable and she had some nice chem with Perry Stephens. I think the show was throwing anything against the wall to see what would stick, and Jack and Stacey seemed to click as a couple. She definitely lucked out in the whole Jennifer Ashe firing situation. Good point about whether or not Jack Forbes was even needed, esp. once the Forbeses were all a memory and Stephens left to be replaced by another actor.

LOL I remember Ava preggers with the pillow. It was definitely stupid, but I remember it being very entertaining. Roya Megnot RIP was pure gold.

I forgot, when was Cabot written out? Was that when his wife Celeste Holm came aboard as Isabel? I was watching on and off at the time.