Loving/The City Discussion Thread

[Paul Raven]

New York Times article dealing with 94 yr old Celeste Holm's (Isabelle and widow of Wesley Addy(Cabot) struggles with her family over money and the battle with her 48 yr old husband.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/03/nyregion/love-and-inheritance-celeste-holms-family-feud.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1&ref=nyregion&src=mv

[DRW50]

That was a sad read. To be honest every time I read about a younger man/much older woman society story I wonder if this is what the outcome is, some type of money drain or a big legal battle between family. I'm sorry it had to happen to all of them.

Is Diana Walker the soap actress (Where the Heart Is)?

[SFK]

*deep sigh* I almost wish I hadn't read that. So sad. It's hard to not be judgmental in cases like this. Of course I'm not the only one reminded of Martha Raye.

And reading that I really appreciated the big laugh *MFB* brought.

[juniorz1]

It was- remember, it was created by Agnes Nixon and Doug Marland. I don't know too much about what went on behind the scenes on Loving but from what I've read and gathered over the years, I do believe Agnes Nixon was a stronger influence than Marland was. In fact, when Marland eventually left the show, he asked to be removed from the credits as even a creator.

Anyhow, I've seen the Ava/Kate and Erica/Mona comparisons time and again. Obviously there are Rachel/Ada comparisons as well. I do believe Ava/Kate were unique characters in their own right and their relationship lied somewhere in the middle of the other two that I mentioned.

I saw Ava as being a lot more fun of a schemer than Rachel, yet not quite as campy or over the top as Erica. I also believe, at least with Roya in the role, that Ava was a little more plain than both of them and certainly more simple. Ava was a schemer and wanted to be a social climber, but was WAY out of her league with people like Cabot, Isabelle, Ann, and ESPECIALLY Gwen. She was almost tragic to watch, as the viewers always kind of knew that Ava would never truly achieve the status she wanted to, no matter how she tried. Kate pretty much saw it the way that we did and while she loved her daughter and encouraged her to pursue her dreams (albeit not in the way Ava always went about it), Kate could see that Ava was destined for failure, yet she was helpless from stopping the trainwreck from happening. Ava was extremely headstrong and mostly didn't listen to anything that Kate said. In fact, Ava always took it as Kate not wanting her to move up in social class when it was usually just that Kate was trying to teach her that having class wasn't about money or marrying into it. It was something that could only be achieved with hard work, persistence, and honesty. Unfortunately, Ava only possessed one of those qualities (perserverence).

As for Kate stacked up against Mona & Ada, I think Kate was tougher than Mona but not nearly as tough as Ada. She was also decidedly more lower-middle class than either of them and more like a real life mom at the time. She worked for a living, kept a nice home, and was a very proud woman. She had this inner strength and she herself could go toe to toe with the Aldens and Gwyneth any day of the week. She was a strong woman who could say more with a look or a glance than some women could say with an entire monologue. And Nada Rowland was an excellent actress who was able to play it without many words. Instead, she gave a lot of meaning to the few words she was given, whether it was giving advice or standing up for herself or Ava. She was brilliant and Rowland & Megnot had some of the best mother/daughter chemistry I've ever seen in daytime, I think even moreso than Heflin/Lucci but again, not quite as much as Ford/Wyndham.

Just another case of Ava/Kate once again falling somewhere in between Rachel/Ada and Erica/Mona. Either way, they were quite brilliant and their relationship was fascinating to watch and a key element in making Ava's character work. It's why, as much as I love her, Lisa Peluso took A LOT of getting used to in the role- some of those things that made the relationship special, like Kate's knowing that Ava would probably never fulfill her dream of moving into the upper crest of Corinth society. Because Peluso's Ava COULD and did move into the upper class and certainly could hold her own with Gwyn and the Aldens where Roya's Ava could not.

[DRW50]

Do you think Carly was brought in as any attempt to emulate parts of Ava that Lisa didn't get?

[DRW50]

Thanks to saynotoursoap! The obsessive fascination a handful of us here have for Loving pays off

Nice to see more of Roya Megnot, and more of Steve. I like Tony, I wish he'd stayed around.

Wish Colleen Dion had been given more vixen-ish clothes. She looks a bit dull here. Or hair or makeup. You can see that great beauty trapped under rouge.

Lotty is a bit spunkier than I'd expected. From the recaps she seems like a total victim.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_E_H9iESCz4&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S2HiUkL64CU&feature=related

Edited July 7, 2011 by CarlD2

[KMan101]

I wish Agnes Nixon could find a way to have Loving rebroadcast, even on the internet. Doesn't she still own the rights?

[DRW50]

I do too. I think she does own them, yes. I hope this might be a chance to at least have some Loving characters show up. I'd love to see Ava again.

[/delusional]

[SFK]

You know, with this new online venture, I wouldn't be surprised if at least The City sooner rather than later became an online offering. These things are actually seeming more and more feasible. I was really surprised and quite pleased to see that the Nickelodeon teen soap Fifteen is available on iTunes for example.

[SFK]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e8AKoQDAvQE&feature=related

[SFK]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Obs1QG_I6Q4&feature=related

[SFK]

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[SFK]

Keep your eyes peeled for Ilene Kristen, Harvey Fierstein, Anthony Herrera, and Elizabeth Savage. And Egypt and Minnie!

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Kate's wig.

[DRW50]

Thanks for all these clips. That first opening seems to have been inspired by Charlie's Angels.

I got the pilot episode a while back and am hoping I can watch it at some point soon. If I do I'll give a review (how thrilling).

I was reading about Elizabeth Savage's departure from Loving. I don't remember the exact quotes, but she was fired when they brought back Christine Tudor. SOD seemed to be surprised by this (perhaps because she was popular). Savage said it worked out great because she made 3 times as much on her talk show as she did on Loving anyway.

Edited July 11, 2011 by CarlD2

[DRW50]

What is that last clip? Is it MST3K Italian style?