Vee

Andrea Thompson has had a real weird career. I will credit her for leaving CNN at the height of the Iraq War and speaking out at a very dangerous time to be doing that, whether her exit was really about that conflict or her becoming a minor scandal for the network because of her racy resume.

It's a funny world we live in. I remember when Dena Higley's school shooter storyline on OLTL got scrapped in the late 2000s - Jonathan Groff pre-stardom was supposed to be the shooter at Starr Manning's school. Then the Virginia Tech massacre happened and they hastily reshot and rewrote it all overnight. At that time, pre-Sandy Hook, pre-everything else, that tragedy was still perceived as a horrifying freak occurrence. And here we are today. Mass shootings are a part of the fabric of American life. Dena's only marketable skill outside DAYS, which got her the job at OLTL she should never have had, was reducing a pitch to a single sentence (and nothing else - she never wrote a bible, which drove Frank Valentini nuts). It's how she got the gig: "Jessica has DID." Most of her other pitches were often ripped from the headlines. On the face of it, her take on a storyline like the Jim McGreevey closeted gay government official scandal wasn't a bad concept. Neither was a school shooter storyline. But in both cases she was always ready to take the most exploitative, least nuanced or mature take on important material. She was in it for the shock value. One of her last storylines also seemed freakishly preposterous at the time: A white supremacist domestic terror cell, operating in a Western city using the Internet and mobilizing for open violence. Again, here we are today. What's fucked up about Dena Higley is her stories were nihilistic cartoons and poorly done, but the seeds of the ideas are more frighteningly relevant all the time, if someone would approach them right.

I just could not get over how much it and especially the new kitchen/dining area resembled the Fresh Prince kitchen set. The show has looked a lot better in recent years than it did in the early-mid 2010s when Frank tried to move half the town into the Metro Court a la GL (something Finola Hughes was the first to push back against) or just slathered gun-metal gray paint on everything else and called it a day, but despite recent improvements that all-white Great Value Nancy Meyers Q redesign has never worked for me. I guess firing Steve Burton buys a lot more wood and paint (and still amazingly, an actual live horse in those stables scenes).

I am amazed (and thrilled) they've recreated a solid facsimile of the classic Q drawing room out of nowhere. I've been calling that recent redesign Bed Bath and Beyond and the Fresh Prince house for a couple years now, so AFAIK:

I'll be that guy. I think a soap with balls would do a school shooting story today and play it. Agnes would've done it. Same as soaps abdicating their responsibility on COVID, or abortion.

Yes, they wanted both things, but nothing else. According to Stamos he wanted a brief storyline that had some impact, a la what you mention and was not into the gag or as he said (paraphrasing) 'just coming back to play drums.' As for Karen, I did and do think that the best way to use her in a brief return would be as a 'Deep Throat'-style figure at the center of some sort of political scandal only Viki, the Banner and maybe a young protege (like Destiny, who worked there under Viki in 2013) can solve. Karen left the show still living in the shadows on the edge of society and that's where she would stay, IMO. There is a mystique to the character that should be preserved.

I'll never get over Tony Call saying he turned down a return at the end because Ron wanted Herb to return married to Karen Wolek - a gag about their famous storyline. (Judith Light claimed to have no knowledge of this, but she did turn the show down too.) It's not dissimilar from the dumb gag return they pitched at GH for John Stamos when he wanted something more substantial - they offered 'Blackie Parrish returns for a walk-on part married to Jackie Templeton, hahaha.'

I think it's another attempt to do something vaguely 'ripped from the headlines' tbh. I've noticed this recently with GH. They did a Kesha/Dr.Luke-esque music scandal storyline with Brook Lynn, Chase and his singing partner vs. that scummy record producer, and now there's this conservatorship with Sasha a la Britney Spears. But in both cases you have potentially dynamite IRL-to-soap material either hung on very bland characters or told in the least interesting, least dynamic or aggressive way possible. Of course, the kind of social issue storytelling they won't go near is the stuff they should do most of all: Stuff like the pandemic, or treating LGBT people, or abortion rights. Yep. Her first appearances were at those meetings.

Yeah. It's the same reason I was never into it when they had Natalie vs. Marty over John years later - those two are the same type of fiery heroine/antiheroine OLTL had been expertly molding since Karen Wolek, across two different iterations. It's the same woman fighting herself.

I just thought Wu wanted the garage as a strategic space for her mob family's operations. She is absolutely a mob boss, I think from the same family as the one from the original Asian Quarter story in the '80s. She first appeared (again, IIRC) as a dayplayer in one of RC's cartoonish "I'll do the mob, but they'll all be like villains from Daredevil" scenes in 2014 or 2015. Then people liked her cutting eyes and wanted her to have more to do, and here we are with Selina Wu giving the same read on every single scene. I think we're supposed to think this garage is worth that much. Which is insane to me.

I think Erin and Melissa had much more interesting chemistry than Bree Williamson and Melissa. It was very difficult for anyone to write Erin's Jessica as just a damsel in distress, or just an idiot ingenue as the recast became; like Kimberly McCullough on GH, Erin radiated more intelligence than that. So what you had onscreen with those two was Melissa as the fire and Erin as a calm, mature presence. I thought it was a great contrast. Of course once Bree arrived it became much more bland. Erin did not hide her distaste for her storylines in 2001-2002. IIRC she was vocally hurt by the early implication that Jessica was not Viki and Clint's daughter but some random castoff, and I think Erika has said the story was hard for her. (I wasn't upset by the story at the time because I assumed it would end up reversed in some way; I don't think GT or anyone else had ever intended to not resolve it eventually as Jess being Viki's daughter after all, but they could've let ET know and the Mitch vs. Clint paternity angle stood for way longer than it should have.) She also was very, very vocal even in press and online interviews about hating the pairing with Seth Anderson. She talks in blunt terms about Brandon Routh's attitude without naming him in the OLTL oral history, and made it clear at the time of the storyline in many interviews that she didn't like Jessica staying with the con man who had slept with her 'sister' and stolen her life. Jessica and Seth's stuff was kind of a B or C-story in 2002 as Natalie became popular and then became the central heroine. I loved MA and Natalie so I adjusted, but Jessica was handled poorly. It didn't have to happen and I wish Erin had stayed. Of course, it didn't last: You cut to 2003 with the insane Malone II run which I could talk about for years, and suddenly Bree Wiliamson's Jessica has arrived as the ultimate clueless soap damsel Erin's never was, is dominating airtime, has an A-story with her character's teen sweetheart's older brother who has known Jess since she was like 13, and meanwhile Natalie and Cristian, the A-story leads of the show in '02, could now barely buy airtime all year along until David Fumero leaves. Things can change on a dime. Well, by the time Kelley Missal got there Eddie could act (at least IMO). After years of being not very good, seemingly overnight in late '08 or early '09 he suddenly began seriously stepping up as part of the story with Matthew being paralyzed, Bo and Nora reuniting, etc. And from then on I feel he became the strongest actor in that age range on the show. (Kelley is also very good, but in a role that on ABC basically amounted to Starr Jr. she didn't get half a chance to show what she was really capable of until the Hulu revival, where she crushed it and dominated. I know @DRW50 had a lot of opinions on that back in the day.) I think Eddie and Kelley were good young talent, and Matthew and Dani were fine characters. (Jason Tam as Markko and Brittany Underwood as Langston were also good, but they were in Frank's designated roles of 'ethnic sidekicks for Starr and Cole'.) I think Destiny has a character had potential but Shenell Edmonds was never much of an actress; her charm and rapport with Eddie put her over with the audience. But the thing is that they clearly backed off Matthew/Danielle in the first place because someone at the show (allegedly, FV but possibly Frons as well above the show) decided Eddie was not hot enough. So they hired the Fords, all overgrown hardbodies, let them dominate the canvas, let one of them squire Dani around and Matthew was relegated to mostly C-story with Destiny or the backburner from then on for as long as the show remained on the network. The Matthew/Dani thread - and the complicated web of romance with them and Matthew/Destiny, and those three characters' childhood friendship and romantic connections - was not properly picked up on again until the Hulu revival, and frankly that triangle could've driven the show as a central axis for years to come, still could today. C'est la vie.

Exactly how much money did Gladys get out of that damn garage?! It can't be worth that much.

LOL this is me. I still haven't! That, Star Trek and MST3K is what I leave it on when I use Pluto. (BTW, for MST fans they've just added the recent Kickstarted season to the rotation - it's very good.)

Every line she says sounds exactly the same!

Shawn is way hotter, and a better actor. Taggert is a lot softer than he used to be, true, but I can buy that re: marriage and family changing him. He was also exactly what Portia needed the night of her wedding and was very good to her. The young Tags wouldn't have played it like that. I think his POV on things is more mature given what he's been through with the women in his life. If Nikolas were still around now though, yes, he and Taggert should have words about it all. And Gia should be back. I'll exchange Jordan for Gia anyday. I still cannot get over how disinterested Genie looked in him lol. And DT deserves it!

The way I recall it, fans were very happy to see the back of JFP. Gary Tomlin was welcomed, and a lot of his early changes made people happy. The thing about Gary is that he also loved grand pronouncements to the soap magazines. Literally any actor who prepared to leave the show he would gush was 'irreplaceable.' Jason-Shane Scott leaves as Will: Irreplaceable! Erika Page leaves as Roseanne: Irreplaceable! I didn't hate Erika Page or anything but it was all a bit much. Still, he clearly had genuine affection for the show and the canvas, he brought back things we cared for, brought back fan favorite characters like Alex and David Vickers, lightened it up and created a new spirit of optimism and hope for the show after several miserable and very long years. (Gary was also responsible for hiring Eddie Alderson as Matthew, owing to the fact that the kid hung out BTS with his sister and the adult actors adored him. The fact that Eddie did not learn to act for another seven years and that his Matthew gradually began to resemble Ralph Wiggum from The Simpsons in the meantime was immaterial, but hey, it all worked out in the end.) AFAIK, there was a real sense of happiness BTS again. And the Viki/Jessica/Natalie saga with Allison Perkins and Mitch was a huge engine for story, and gave us Roxy. But Gary was never much for taste. The vile Baby Jack story with Todd and Blair was played for laughs, with a Mariachi band and actual cartoons onscreen. The extended storyline in which Mark Derwin impersonates a mentally challenged man would not fly today! The return of Gabrielle was lampooned because of Fiona Hutchison's very campy performance, which (allegedly) led to BTS pressure from certain parties to end the storyline with her, Asa and Max ASAP. (I loved her performance, but I was in the minority.) And the Natalie story was controversial with the audience and BTS with Erin Torpey, where I think it ultimately helped push her to leave the show due to how she felt Jessica had been marginalized. (She was.) The Mitch rape retcon with Viki was unnecessary. The Keri Reynolds/Antonio saga sucked. The Todd/Tea island adventure, don't get me started. The Colin/Troy switcheroo, with Ty Treadway rehired with great fanfare to play Colin's identical twin so Gary could eagerly tout responding to fan demand to see HBS and TT paired for real, flopped and led to the horrendous "Joanna" plotline - but it also gave us the scorching Troy/Lindsay affair in Gary's final months. The focus on Jen Rappaport sucked, until in his second year Gary realized the fan rooting interest and made her the villain opposite Natalie. So it was a very, very mixed bag. There were fun stories and new characters and then very bad ones, and the audience rebelled. The show had gone from grim and miserable to OTT camp and silliness. But Gary did give us some new characters, couples and stories we cared for (Natalie and Cristian/Natalie, Roxy, Bo/Gabrielle). I think Gary's heart was in the right place, but the taste and a lot of the writing went to Saturday morning cartoon levels. Still, he reignited the show's heart and he gave us Live Week. Which we should've done again, every year. Anyway, mine is just one opinion. I'm sure many can weigh in.

I'll be that guy. @Darn and I have spoken of this in whispers, but while I know Selina Wu is popular with fans... the actress is uh, let's kindly say one-note. She comes off like a dayplayer who fans cottoned on to (which I'm pretty sure is exactly what she is, if I remember her first appearances correctly) and who they then gave too many lines and proved why she was a dayplayer. I absolutely adore the idea of them bringing the Asian Quarter stuff back, and I was excited when I first heard the Wus were becoming a real factor again several years ago. I'd welcome a lot more AAPI characters. It's so overdue. But this actress as Wu is not it for me. Yet you can't recast because fans love her.

IIRC, JFP had ratings up at that time because she went for the jugular early and often. Much of the late '90s for OLTL were sleepy doldrums, a hangover from the glory years under Gottlieb/Susan Bedsow Horgan and Malone/Griffith, which were built on a succession of massive umbrella storylines and heady supercouples. Several subsequent revolving-door regimes under Laiman, Labine, etc. mostly coasted on the fumes of that glory and those couples, some bad regimes, some so-so. Labine was just finishing out her network contract at ABC after her GH spinoff was turned down and was clearly not fully invested in being there. There were a few good stories, ideas, couples, etc. but mostly it was a fallow period. It always felt like a lazy fall season to me. JFP changed that. She came in hot and suddenly huge things were happening. As @Khan IIRC and I have both discussed, the Georgie Phillips scandal with Bo, Nora, a video-manipulated 'sex tape' (an early precursor to CGI and AI fakes today) and her subsequent murder gripped a lot of people - me included. All of a sudden the teenaged me opened up a soap magazine and saw the actors playing Bo and Nora, my favorite couple, touting a hot new storyline for them after they'd spent the last couple years cuddling and snoozing in the background. RSW and HBS both openly cheered on the story, saying they'd spent the last couple seasons 'in the freezer'. Then Jessica loses her virginity in what I thought then and now was a very honest, realistic way - drunk, to the wrong guy, who promptly knocks the perfect daughter up. Then Bo and Nora are broken apart. Cassie goes insane. Jessica loses her baby, to Dorian. It was urgent action and drama. It brought me back, I think it brought a lot of people back. But what many of us didn't know about JFP initially, but learned quickly, it that it was empty calories. The flash faded and you began to get an idea of what you were really looking at. The day to day writing suffered terribly, got very stupid. The murder story with Rachel was crass, histrionic and misogynistic, the first of many. And while JFP had used key popular characters to bolster ratings and push her narratives, Bo and Nora together were not her priority. Dorian was not her priority. Sam Rappaport (played by her lover Kale Browne) was her priority; Tim Gibbs as Kevin was her priority; Sam's son Will (the wrong man for Jessica) was her priority; Ben Davidson was her priority. I remember being glued to the TV afterschool everyday for my tape of OLTL in the February sweeps of 2000. Nora had finally discovered that Lindsay Rappaport had altered Bo's fertility tests, which had driven her to go to bed with Sam in order to provide a grieving, suicidal Bo with a child. This choice ultimately destroyed their marriage. (And it was a storyline HBS, who initially cheered on JFP's arrival, detested - she tried to go to the head of the network to get killed off, for Nora to die in childbirth.) Nora manages to get past Sam - who tries to physically bar her from leaving her home, something I never forgot or forgave - and rushes to the church to bust up Bo and Lindsay's wedding, while (IIRC) Jessica rushes to stop Cristian from marrying Roseanne Delgado. I was sure things were finally going to be put right for these characters, that Bo and Nora, as a beloved supercouple, would get it together and Lindsay and to a lesser degree Sam would see justice. But that didn't happen. Bo and a lot of other people blamed Nora. Sam remained a central sympathetic player in the show's eyes (multiple DNA tests were even done in those years to try to force the audience to accept that little Matthew was in fact Sam's son, something that was only undone once JFP was gone). The focus of the show remained on the Rappaport family, populated largely by actors JFP either had long favored on other shows or who she herself had discovered, and on the veteran favorite characters (Bo, Nora, Viki, Jessica, etc.) who JFP could carefully attach to them in frontburner romances. And Bo and Nora stayed broken up for almost another decade. JFP was very clever. She knew the way to make her characters and performers indispensable (for a time, anyway) was to link them deeply to popular characters, and to play the longtime characters heavy in those major stories. She got one thing right: She played Bo, Nora, Viki, etc. everyday. But the stories often sucked, the characters were a mess, and it took years to recover from what she did. She eviscerated the show. That said, yes - the ratings went up.

Yes. People were furious about LB's firing as well as Robin going. The Tim Gibbs Kevin recast was wildly unpopular both with the audience and BTS, but he was a JFP favorite and was played everyday. Once Jill left OLTL, Gibbs' Kevin didn't even get an onscreen exit; that was how little the network and show knew fans regarded him. The miscarriage storyline was well-performed and had some decent drama at various points, but all of it was designed to marginalize Dorian as a character. And it did that. I don't even remember the nonsense with Hugo Monroe, that entire mob storyline and family was completely forgettable months after it happened. This is the first time I've thought of the Monroes in years.

Far, far too young. He was incredible on Rome (the precursor to GOT and most of the modern wave of high-budget prestige TV/streaming) with Kevin McKidd, the immortal Polly Walker, Tobias Menzies, etc. and the show got canned, IIRC, for being too expensive. Its budget probably wouldn't put a dent in a single year of Thrones or LOTR today. Ray Stevenson could do anything in any old piece of material and often did in the last decade, but he was never less than 150% committed. What a guy. First Amis, now this.

Relevant to both threads, I think:

I'll admit to not having watched it, but I still can't imagine how a new show could've so bungled a setup involving Judith Light, Mitch Pileggi and Carlos Bernard all in the same series as heavies. That is a murderer's row. I guess it comes down to the plotting and the young leads being miscast (though I've always liked Jordana Brewster).

I'm just amused Jacobs vetoed them using Abby. He was right to do it.

Kind of, but they backed off it well before that and put her with Johnny for a year. I could swear Shawn and Carly was teased for at least a year prior to that. And Curtis absolutely is a replacement. They even inherited the same love interest. Both men were disposable.