DramatistDreamer

Good topic @Mona Kane Croft. Lots of food for thought. If people haven’t read the book When Women Invented Television I would highly recommend it, it’s worth a read but the sections on Irna Phillips would be particularly relevant to this discussion. From what I read, it appeared that Phillips felt that the executives, P&G, et al, never had much faith in her and didn’t trust her instincts. There is that story of Phillips wanting to do away with the organ music that led to ad breaks for televised soaps, insisting that it was only really necessary for radio broadcasts and if it continued on television, she feared that it would only become something that would be made light of and mocked. Obviously, TPTB didn’t agree with her and felt it was a signature of sorts, for a soap and left it in. Who was right, who was not? I don’t know if the answer is that simple but think of all of those sketch comedy shows that parody soaps, what’s the first cue that they use? Organ music? I think though that there was always something of a hierarchy within entertainment with television somehow being at the bottom, that has changed with the era of prestige prime time television that began around the end of the 20th century. Meanwhile, in daytime, it feels as though people making the dramas were determined to either be in on the joke or make a mockery of themselves lest they be mocked by others. There are other elements that went into it as well, sexism, misogyny, chauvinism, arrogance, lack of vision, lack of foresight, too much of a willingness to go with the trend and toss out the fundamental tenets of good storytelling, seeking cheap thrills. The other part of it was that once the genre developed an inferiority complex (I would agree that it was likely industry wide some time in the 1990s) the companies that produced these shows started chasing screenwriters who couldn’t find work in films to write for these daytime dramas, whether these writers knew anything about the shows they were writing for or not. Of course, there is no rule against genre hopping —Paddy Chayefsky was a writer that many writers wanted to emulate (minus the horrible health issues) because he was successful writing scripts for television, theater and film. But many of these writers didn’t know or seem to care about the history of the genre they were entering into.

From what I have observed, it seems as though, after Margaret Colin’s departure from the show, Deas may have either developed some bad habits or became a bit lazy. Hillary Bailey Smith, in one of those reunion discussions done during the pandemic, was very diplomatic when describing what it was like to replace Colin in the character of Margo. She basically said that Deas wasn’t too happy working with someone else. Episodes of HBS’ “Margo” and Deas’ “Tom” are pretty rare on YouTube but you can definitely tell that Deas’ energies are somewhere else, definitely not with his onscreen partner.

Yeah, I noticed that someone in the comments section commented on her Daytime Emmy and Tony awards. I guess mentioning the Tony awards might have been a bridge too far, at least they specified that she won her maiden Primetime Emmy.

I decided to skip it. To be honest, I can’t really remember when I last watched anything close to a full awards show.

I ❤️this!

I missed the match too. I saw highlights on YouTube.

That title was a long time coming for Grigor Dimitrov.

Definitely a wise choice to get rid of the vocal part.

Lisa McColl vs. Lucinda Walsh.

When is the last time there was a story where we saw a close friendship at play? The last time I saw Lauren, she and Michael were discussing Phyllis as if she were their problem child. The last time Victoria had any friends, I think Heather Tom was in the role. The friendship between Dru and Sharon was so organic, they’ve never filled that void for Sharon. After the breakup of one of Victoria’s many relationships, they could have had her have some time at the club. It needn’t be anything serious, but of course it would concern Victor who wonders if Victoria’s new activity will take energy away from Newman, to which Victoria replies that it’s no different than Victor and his boxing.

Deadline, mentioning nothing about her daytime career, says this is Light’s first ever Emmy. https://deadline.com/2024/01/peacock-wins-first-emmy-judith-light-poker-face-1235697024/

It’s crazy to me that a film from the 1990s could be endangered this way. I really enjoyed watching this film when I was able to see it on A&E (I think it aired on that network) before A&E and Bravo became a repository for reality television. It was the first time that I remember seeing Tracey Ullman in a mostly dramatic role and Lily Taylor was truly luminescent in this role. I am glad that Nancy Savoca was able to buy the rights to her film and rescue it from obsolescence. We fans of daytime drama often talk about how gems are seemingly cast off to the wayside but the industry but, I guess, this happens all around. https://www.wbur.org/news/2024/01/03/nancy-savoca-1993-film-household-saints-brattle-theatre

I really like the tight close up on Ellen’s face during those scenes where she is trying to piece together the events that led up to finding John’s body. That music and that single tear streaming down her face, just well done work all around. Other than ATWT and GL, I have never seen Deas’ work. Those who have seen all his work, would you say that the work he did here with future wife Margaret Colin is his best work?

These posts, I am here for! Seriously, I dropped Y&R from my viewing schedule when “Jordan” was hauled away but these posts are keeping informed and entertained. Although, I could have sworn that Morrow did an interview in the very recent past where he tried to clean up his past remarks about Case, acknowledging that Nick and Sharon were likely endgame but Y&R being a continuing drama, they had to be kept apart for the foreseeable future. Bonus points if someone could find that interview, I am thinking that it was done during the pandemic. Also, maybe this is my writer’s brain thinking but since when do the actors determine story? This is where Y&R took its inexorable march down the cliff imo. To paraphrase Yoda “either do or not do”. And imo, to “not do” means letting the role go to someone who “can do” and will do. In the real world outside of soaps, 30 years is a great run and longevity is not guaranteed in any industry. *Also, am I the only one curious about the origin of Morrow’s remarks? Sharon never said anything even remotely negative about Morrow (at least not publicly). Did Sharon break his heart or reject him in the early days? What’s up with that?!

Yeah, that scene came on the heels of a married Sierra rejecting Craig’s advances before running out of the stables, shattering Craig. Lucinda was there to pick up the pieces, more than ready to be the receptacle to Craig’s pent up lust.

So it seems that, on the episode marking the exact anniversary date for the show, Craig and Lucinda had their ONS. It starts on the previous episode and there was lots of champagne involved as Craig, having just helped Betsy save Steve’s life, and Betsy forgot to thank him, leaving Craig feeling dejected and Lucinda was ready to land her seduction attempts. I think it was less than a full day later, Betsy invites Craig to the house, saying that she never got a chance to thank him. When Craig arrives at the cabin, Betsy reveals to him that Sierra survived and has been staying with her and Steve for her safety and they got the word that she is officially safe.

Lucinda and Craig had a ONS in late winter/early spring 1985 when both thought Sierra had been killed and were grieving and well, you know how that goes… From what I have been told, Marland officially took over the HW job by the early fall (or late summer?) 1985, so unless he was ghostwriting, it was just as likely Susan Bedsow-Horgan. Man, I wish someone would do a proper interview with her and ask her about the timeline of her writing tenure at ATWT! By the time Bob and Kim had their wedding in April 1985, as part of ATWT’s anniversary, Sierra was discovered to be alive and she and Craig eventually reconnected and began a friendship, which made Lucinda uneasy (as she was hiding a secret from both) as well as jealous and resentful of the fact that Craig essentially treated them having slept together as a ONS between two people grieving over what they believed at that time to be the untimely loss of someone special to them. In one of the soap threads, someone posted a CBS promo from 1985 and there’s a quick but illuminating clip of Craig and Sierra in each other’s arms and Lucinda, who has obviously just walked in to discover them in an embrace, has a look on her face as if her blood has just run cold. Craig, who notices Lucinda (and her scowl) over Sierra’s shoulder has this indescribable look on his face, as if he had been caught ravishing Sierra right in the foyer. It’s a “blink and you’ll miss it” moment, but that promo is certainly worth a look.

Ugh, I don’t know if it was a conscious choice but I pretty much wiped him from my memory bank, lol! McCouch tried to capture Brian Bloom’s Long Island swag but it just came off as an off-brand Cagney gangster flick imitation.

No disrespect to Beck but I completely forgot about her. I really wasn’t too invested in the show when she was on and I am not sure that she really inspired any deep discussion on specific storylines or character evolution. I am interested in hearing your thoughts on how her characterization contrasted to the others. FWIW, I only mentioned Lucy Deakins as a counterpoint to Martha Byrne, I didn’t go into detail about her, although there is also a marked contrast between her Lily and Byrne’s iteration of the character. Again, I had no intention of slighting Beck but I just don’t remember enough of her time on the show to give any in depth analysis as I was pretty much done with the series by then.

The show should have stopped searching after casting Holyrod, who was a good fit for the role, like you just mentioned. To me, letting him go is just another part of that turbulent final decade of the show where tptb, even when they made a solid decision, ended up undercutting that same solid choice by making an unwise decision. Letting Holyrod go in favor of Howarth was just bizarre, as his characterization of Paul didn’t fit with anyone beyond trading barbs with Block and McCouch.

Over the holiday weekend, it was a mix of a limited series on Hulu, which I subscribed to for a few months, courtesy of a Black Friday promotion and PBS. I was curious about the Jessica Lange and Susan Sarandon edition of Feud about Joan Crawford vs. Bette Davis. It was okay. I expected to be constantly reminded that it was Susan Sarandon pretending to be Bette Davis and this only happened a few times. Lange was good at disappearing somewhat more successfully into the role but I think the series could have ended a few episodes earlier than it did. One article that I read criticized the series for only showing Crawford as an actress concerned with her fading looks, while showing Davis is more layered and concerned with the work of being a character actress and producer. I can see that, perhaps if they gave Crawford an additional layer, the final three episodes might not have felt like a bit of a slog. This weekend I also started to catch up with my viewing of the PBS Frontline series. I still contend that Frontline is the best news series on television. It provides depth to news events in a way that no other news program does, including 60 Minutes. I think I am almost finished with Mrs. America, I know I’m late, lol. Much better than the installment of the Feud limited series that I saw over the weekend, although I am curious as to why the Shirley Chisholm character seems to fade from view towards the end of the series.

ATWT The change in the character of Betsy Stewart Andropoulos when the actress changed from Meg Ryan to Lindsey Frost was like night and day. Betsy had been seen as a quirky cute ingenue and this likely had everything to do with Ryan’s characterization. Frost’s characterization was relayed with a sense of underlying soberness, no longer showing as a dreamy eyed young woman but a practical married woman with ambitions to work outside the home. Ryan’s Betsy had chemistry with her two onscreen husbands, Frost’s best onscreen chemistry was platonic chemistry with her onscreen best friend. There was the controversial evolution of the Lily Walsh character under Martha Byrne vs. under Heather Rattray, who briefly took over the role when Martha left in the early 1990s. There are fans of both actresses’ portrayals but what really stood out is that the very different personalities happened under the pen of the same head writer! Martha Byrne did not originate the role (that was Lucy Deakins who actually beat out Byrne for the role and left to do movies, leaving an opening for Byrne to step into the role) but Byrne’s “poor little rich girl” characterization became the most known portrayal of the character. Heather Rattray’s portrayal was a decidedly more adult incarnation of the character, business savvy, ambitious and had a less romanticized view of relationships, to the point of quasi-vixen tendencies. Like I said, there are passionate fans of both and has been lots of debate about this. Much discussed in the ATWT thread (so I won’t go into details here) is the stark contrast between how Scott Bryce portrayed Craig Montgomery from Hunt Block’s portrayal, which I am still scratching my head about whether the writing drove the portrayal or the portrayal drove the writing. But the difference was so drastic that when Bryce was brought back in the role over a decade after having left, he was totally confused by the recent history and direction of the character and continued to ask questions about how the character had landed in this state. Bryce was fired after this. In fact, I think both actors may have been fired that turbulent last decade of the series. Finn Carter and Mary Beth Evans could not have performed two more different versions of the character of Sierra Esteban Montgomery. Evans appeared as Sierra during that turbulent last decade of the series and often played opposite Block’s Craig, which could explain much of it. Evans’ portrayal seemed archly aristocratic, as if someone told her that her character was part of an influential family but neglected to tell her that her character was also a revolutionary who had fought in a war in her homeland, a Central American nation. Carter had the much better writing but her performance was also more layered, showing the evolution of the character—you really have to watch to appreciate this. The differences in how Melanie Smith portrayed Emily Stewart from Kelly Menighan Hensley is another example of a sharp contrast. We’ve talked about this in length in the ATWT thread and it really is worth delving deeper into the thread and watch supporting video clips for a clearer understanding of what I am describing.

Japan has really started the new year on a somber note, with a deadly earthquake and a deadly collision on an airport runway. https://www3.nhk.or.jp/nhkworld/en/news/ Every nation needs to be looking at how resilient is the infrastructure and if all standards are up to par. An otherwise very modern society has a prefecture that had a number of houses and buildings that were old and unstable after several decades of wear and tear. Something tells me these homes were likely occupied by elderly people and those of low income. Inequality is dangerous.

Or that person commenting on an otherwise fun video that LLB posted on her Instagram post about blondes being demonic and Phyllis and Danny.🤪 I really shouldn’t read the comments but I couldn’t resist. That’s what I get.

B-I-N-G-O!