DRW50

Regarding Josh and Vanessa, the only time I can see them as a couple is their first few years on the show, when they were rich, catty bitches alienated from most of "good" Springfield, to the point where I remember one 1982 episode in Wired for Sound (wasn't that the name of the disco?) that has them both prowling the place, being judged nonstop by all of Marland's morally righteous creations. (I wish they'd kept some of that designer-sunglasses aspect with Josh later on but I suppose "good" characters aren't meant to luxuriate in their money) If Marland had stayed with GL, I could see them eventually circling each other the way Joe Bradley and Diane did - amoral people who couldn't trust each other as partners in crime or in bed, maybe with a less fatal outcome. If Marland had introduced HB and Billy, I imagine they would be very different, and Billy wouldn't have been paired with Vanessa. In a story where Vanessa found out Quint was Henry's son, I could see her convincing Josh to try to break up Quint and Nola (promising him some kind of business help or whatever), only to become jealous at seeing Josh wooing a woman she hates instead of her.

When you don't tell stories about how people change with age, you're missing out on the full soap experience. EastEnders has a character, Kathy, who, probably because she looks young for being in her 70s, is often given stories that involve affairs, or, at one point, battering her daughter-in-law, with no real consequence or meaning. And various references to her passing for 49, being a GILF, and so on. But that's something that has bugged me about soaps for 20+ years now. I do wonder how SB would have used Sophia if the show had continued.

There's a strange culture in place now where older women are styled younger while many younger women, at least those with money, seem to carve up their faces to try to look older. I know someone who is in her 70s but tries to style her hair the same way she did 50 years ago, part of how she tries to act much younger, behavior that has led to multiple falls and surgeries...I don't think someone should have to act a certain age, but it does make you worry. Of course there are many men who make the same mistakes, or worse. The mid/late '80s had the issues where a lot of women seemed to have to dress older or more conservatively to try to "prove" something. On SB I think Marcy Walker also had some unflattering styling for similar reasons.

I remember some clip from when he first woke up and Britt meeting him, and she seemed nervous and he had a kind of smug of dark look on his face. There was another where everyone left him alone in his hospital room and I thought he looked the same way once they were gone. Who knows where that's meant to lead, but I took it as some hint.

I keep meaning to go back and finish your other recent recaps - this thread moves fast - but I did want to thank you once again, especially as you are reminding me of a great deal I'd forgotten from this period. Matt being called Vanessa's son - another little dig from Rauch or whoever, I assume. More hints of Cassie/Josh, which happens repeatedly in these years (the hints). I wasn't sure if Marcus and Dahlia were still around. Poor Kevin "Daytime Emmy winner" Mambo. Josh sleeping with the clone always felt a little too far for me, although I had a low enough opinion of Josh to where I wasn't outraged. The main memory I ever have of Sean is that he had the best chest on the show. My memory of the Beth and Carl story is of it being better than it should have been, as it helps explain some of Beth's behavior and BC as well as the guy who played Carl do some good work.

@slick jones I didn't see this listed in Joan Bennett's IMDB page, although I may be wrong. Thought it might be new to you as well.

When you represent most of the town for free, this is the end result.

Great find @MissPalmer . I'd forgotten there was another Viki, let alone a photo of her.

Thank you for sharing this. One of the best trailers. I remember seeing this on Encore when I was probably too young. The movie is like a dream you can't wake up from - some of her flashbacks have haunted me ever since. Diane was mostly known for her vibrant, quirky personality, her laugh, her comedies, and how timeless she felt, never degrading herself with the bad procedures or bad PR relationships of many. And those movies, Baby Boom, Something's Gotta Give, etc. please many. I think I'll always remember her work in dramas though, especially the '70s or early '80s dramas that were a last gasp of intelligent for Hollywood. Her work in Reds, the clip @Vee shared, is superb, the clarity of her dream along with the disillusion. Pretty much no one since can compare to the '70s stars, the last gasp in many ways.

Since there's been some talk about "Hold on to Love" again recently, I remembered I had this from a soap channel that was briefly up last year and had a lot of rare content. It's alternate versions of the theme. I should warn this has loud beeping at the start.

I wonder if Cindy would have returned to GL if asked for a Jackie return story, at least by the time her primetime career had cooled off. Not that GL cared...

It does seem like he was going to say more if given the chance. Watching some of that again made me realize it was Hillary, not Ellen, who told the story of Scott Holmes working in Charleston - she said that a friend of hers was on a tour there and recognized him. Another neat little story I had not fully heard on first watch is that Barbara was one of the only ATWT characters Hillary knew before joining the show because a friend of hers was a big fan of Barbara. And that friend was Dick Wolf's first wife.

She has that late '80s CBS look. Either a role like that that or someone who got killed off by a psycho on Knots after about four episodes. Maybe the Luke stuff was just mentioned in his later years. I have such contempt for Luke that I may just be casting aspersions retroactively. And yes, Sarah's Carly was ugly and riveting to watch.

Not to take this back into the past too much, and your memory is better than mine, but I have vague memories of stuff like heavy implications of Luke sleeping with prostitutes throughout his marriage even by the late '90s. I do agree Luke's contempt for Lucky didn't really start until Greg was in the role. Lucky and Lulu both had a priority in a way which also felt like reinforcing Guza's hostilities, for me - JJ also had to play Lucky being vile toward the woman he was meant to love, and not caring about the kids much, while JMB (badly) played Luke Jr. Carly is interesting to me because I never really loved the writing for her. If I look back I may appreciate it more now, especially with what she has become. Either way, I can't see KT being able to play it. She has her moments but comes across with the depth of a love interest on Jake and the Fatman who turns out to be the killer.

I think the seeds were already being sewn in 1997 because that's when Tony's contempt for L&L and for Luke being a husband or father was starting to be nurtured That's what put Lulu and Lucky where they are now. I never really thought Lucky's return was going to work, for that and several other reasons, although I thought it was going to last longer than it did. One could argue that Carly was written in an uglier way than Britt, even if they tried for some sympathy (like when Carly had agoraphobia for five minutes), but Sarah was just so much better.

I almost wish they had written her this way again when Carrie Mowery played the part. She was very brittle and might have worked as a bitch. Cindy Pickett just had so much heart in the role, maybe the Dobsons picked up on that. By the time of what is available to us, she is a long-suffering heroine in the grand old soap style, almost to the point of parody if not for Cindy's incisive work.

This is an episode from 1983 and a clip from about a week later that were on Youtube a few years ago but I couldn't find them now (if I missed them my apologies). I'm not completely sure about the dates but they were what was on the files.

To me JMB only really managed a believable relationship near the end of her tenure (and I didn't even think that one was fantastic), but I don't want to have to keep waiting to see if Eden will manage to get the right roll of the dice right before she leaves (or the show ends). I keep seeing some talk about how great she and Dex were compared to how she is with Vaughn but I don't see a big difference. I think Dex just fit more of the traditional younger leading man profile for a soap that has appeal to some viewers.

Yeah, I know little of them. I always associate her with Keith in this period. They're a fun part of this though, especially Robin.

That's a good concept for Emma - not sure of the last young woman along those lines. Maybe Maxie, but I never thought Maxie was well-written outside of a few individual moments. I wonder if they even had any plans for Emma or if they just liked the actress and gave her a part. Maybe at the time she was cast they were going to have Emma/Gio/Joss. I could see that happening when Vaughn goes to model jock straps in the great beyond.

NAC could have stayed on the show for ten years and I don't think the show would have done more with Sprina than they did. Clearly some of the same factors are not present with Gio and Emma, but one still is - Joss. Joss was meant to be the chosen one for the powers that be, even if that now somehow means Debbie Does WSB. Emma, who is mostly related to people who people who will never have a major role on the show again, was not. I think she was meant to be there as a bitch or brat, maybe with some vulnerability, but not a central heroine.

IIRC, they did not kiss. I think Colton Little suggested they couldn't say much about it, although maybe that was another actor.

After whatever went on with the Paul and Andrew wedding, they may be under more pressures than we realize, although I think those who run the show would never have felt comfortable with much more than we get now.

Thanks as always @slick jones