Are we still doing men getting down on their knees to propose and presenting a ring? I hate that. How about a couple deciding together, rather than the man making the decision that he's ready and letting the woman actually have a say in the ring she is going to wear for years. Maybe even choosing a ring for him?

As for the no kissing, it's ridiculous on so many levels.

I wonder how much forward planning the show did, because a lot of the stories seem aimless. What was the plan for Ted after he divorced? The Shanice relationship feels like they just looked around for someone for Ted and Shanice lost a lot of her spark in the process.

You would think there would have been at least a 2-3 year bible set out. But what we see onscreen eg the Hayley story seems to be made up as they go along.

28 minutes ago, Paul Raven said:

The Shanice relationship feels like they just looked around for someone for Ted and Shanice lost a lot of her spark in the process.

also curious to know if the show was aware of her reluctance to do love scene? if so, then it wouldn’t have been much of an issue. but, if they intended to put her and ted together from the beginning, they should have cast another actor.

and, once they decided to put her and ted together, they should have recast the role. they did with ted, so why not her?

it doesn’t need to be at the dani/andre or nicole/kiel level — truth is, both of those are a tad too explicit for my taste — but the lack of physical contact makes it difficult to buy into ted and shanice as a couple.

Edited October 11Oct 11 by wonderwoman1951

So Ted and Shanice can touch each other and be in bed together but no kissing? Ok, whatever.

Are we expected to find Joey dangerous but desirable? Because to me he's just a sleazy criminal and idiot Vanessa deserves all the trouble she's inviting into her life.

The real problem with Ted is that he’s a non-character. What’s his fatal flaw? What makes him angry? What does he want out of life? What’s his Achilles’ heel? Why did he become a surgeon? How did losing his brother in a plane crash affect him?

The writers have no clear idea who Ted is, beyond the fact that he’s a decent guy whose biggest flaw seems to be saying “I love you” too soon. And that’s precisely why his relationship with Shanice feels so inconsistent. The only time I saw some ‘character’ in him is when he was so understanding to Kat debating whether to donate part of her liver.

As for Ernestine’s apparent refusal to kiss her onscreen partner, I find it insulting to viewers and disrespectful to her scene partner, because it makes it virtually impossible for the couple to work. It’s one thing for Hollywood to exploit women’s bodies, gratuitously stripping them naked far more often than men, regardless of what the story actually requires. Think of Daenerys on Game of Thrones, who was constantly naked and sometimes subjected to sexual violence in the early seasons, as if viewers were supposed to find nothing wrong with it.

But here we’re talking about portraying a basic display of affection, something fundamental to selling a love story. To me, it’s unacceptable. And what makes it even more frustrating is that the show is so far ahead in writing and production that the writers won’t be able to course-correct anytime soon. That enormous gap between production and broadcast needs to shrink.

On the other hand, we have Nicole, who spent this week screaming hysterically over her son’s safety (not particularly convincing, especially when her son looks older than she does), only to jump back into bed with Kial, once again displaying what I find to be her usual vulgarity.

Honestly, I almost wish Nicole were officially diagnosed with dissociative identity disorder. At least that would make her interesting.

And wasn’t she supposed to have had some sort of epiphany about the Impaler’s identity a few days ago? I guess that’s another dangling plot thread that will suddenly resurface out of nowhere when we least expect it.

Edited October 11Oct 11 by Aback

7 hours ago, Paul Raven said:

You would think there would have been at least a 2-3 year bible set out. But what we see onscreen eg the Hayley story seems to be made up as they go along.

Exactly. Where is the bible? Were there no plans for any of the characters and the stories? All these random characters showing up, nothing big happening with them, key characters being involved with recurring players. Nobody is writing with passion for these folks. TPTB seem to like Vernon, Anita, Joey and Dani, they have some fun with Leslie and Hayley and that's it.

8 hours ago, Sapounopera said:

Exactly. Where is the bible? Were there no plans for any of the characters and the stories? All these random characters showing up, nothing big happening with them, key characters being involved with recurring players. Nobody is writing with passion for these folks. TPTB seem to like Vernon, Anita, Joey and Dani, they have some fun with Leslie and Hayley and that's it.

I've been asking that same question for about a year now.

In interviews, I learned that a headwriter like Douglas Marland did storyline projects about 2 years out. Nowadays there are apps and software that simplify the process of organizing your storyline projections. Even though it sounds like an oxymoron, the more detailed your plotting and outlines are when you construct them, the more this frees you up to make measured adjustments along the way, without degrading the foundation for the story.

19 hours ago, Soaplovers said:

Unpopular opinion: I actually like that the show doesn't have too many love scenes. While the real life situation with Shanice is a bit extreme, there is a danger in being too intimate with your scene partners... marriages have broken up in the past because of it... but I think there needs to be a balance over the situation with Shanice/Ted...

I don't need a ton of love scenes on soaps, either, but I'm lost at your comment that "there is a danger in being too intimate with your scene partners... marriages have broken up in the past because of it..." I mean, come on.

I also don't know what you mean by calling for a balance over the Shanice/Ted situation. What would that balance look like?

If Shanice and Ted were kissing and touching in a romantic way, I wouldn't comment on them at all -- even if they never had a bedroom scene. If we never saw Dani and Andre in a bed having sex, I'd still believe them as a couple because they exude intimacy and don't look like platonic buddies.

12 hours ago, Aback said:

But here we’re talking about portraying a basic display of affection, something fundamental to selling a love story. To me, it’s unacceptable. And what makes it even more frustrating is that the show is so far ahead in writing and production that the writers won’t be able to course-correct anytime soon.

All true. Completely unacceptable.

14 hours ago, Paul Raven said:

Are we expected to find Joey dangerous but desirable? Because to me he's just a sleazy criminal and idiot Vanessa deserves all the trouble she's inviting into her life.

Agree completely. I have yet to understand why Vanessa sees Joey as some hot romantic hero. Of course, some people still believe Vanessa is playing the long game and that she has a game plan to bring down Joey. I find that laughable.

8 hours ago, Sapounopera said:

Where is the bible? Were there no plans for any of the characters and the stories? All these random characters showing up, nothing big happening with them, key characters being involved with recurring players.

I read the interview with MVJ about upcoming stories, and she confirmed they're writing for APRIL right now. That makes it clear that the problems we're talking about will not even be addressed.

A lot of the article was MVJ quotes about how proud she is of the show. I get that, and she deserves to be proud. Still, all her comments about future story sounded like vague soap-speak to me, as if she was determined to say almost nothing. Saying "So-and-so's life is really going to change" means nothing to me.

Well, well, well...them tables. lol.

Now that I got the wiggle room and am actually caught up to this past week. Where do I even begin?

I haven't liked how shady CBS has been with the availability of BTG episodes. At all. But I have managed for the most part to see them. And there were several things that came to mind as I caught up and stayed caught up.

I mentioned the last time I posted that I didn't mind the slow burn momentum it had going on. I also mentioned that I liked all the various opinions that popped up about Joey over the last two years. And how the optics of him lording over the Duprees made you all feel.

I found that those opinions about Joey...was how I've begun to feel about Heather. I said before that the show is at its best IMHO when the A story is focused on one of the Core Four (Dani/Vernon/Anita/Nicole) with B/C plots circling said A story. And in the past...any attempt to do otherwise has messed with the momentum. UNLESS the story focus was already well paced and developed enough to hold its own. One of this show's noticeable fails was using June as the center story last year. One of this show's noticeable wins...even if it was not liked in these parts...has been when the show centered on Joey/Doug/Vanessa.

I have loved how Sarah Brown-coded AJ's Heather is. I've said that. I knew she could play against type (and just rewatched clips from Season 2 of TRUE BLOOD yesterday as a matter of fact) so she's been a joy to watch. She still has been. But since my last post, the show suddenly focused so much on Heather spinning her web and I felt it was...too soon. Not that it wasn't intriguing enough. Heather as Andre's ex lover. Heather vs Joey. Heather slowing weaving herself in among the FC folk. And that's not even including the Impaler stuff. And honestly...she was delicious without the Impaler stuff. But WITH it, I just eyerolled. While I like it gives Martin, Smitty, and Jacob story, I didn't like Lia being killed because they really introduced some interesting backstory there between her, Marcel, and SilkPress that I would have love to see explore, but alas. So her devouring so much story at the expanse of...well...everyone...I didn't like that.

Thankfully, the writers shifted back onto a Dupree (re: Dani) and started to climax off the Hayley storyline. THANK YOU!!! I've been enjoying all the Kristen Dimera antics. I loved that it was Dani who figured it out as I figured last year it would be cuz there was no way they were going to leave Dani/Andre out of it. And I loved they did the right thing by building problems into their marriage (her-Bill elevator sex, him-Heather) before the reveal. The writers also leaned into (what they should have) the hot Bill/Dani/Andre triangle. And dare I say...they are doing the right thing by having Bill FINALLY show remorse. His recent scenes with Chels was the POV I needed. And while I'm not Team Bill/Dani...I do enjoy the mess and he still has a way to go with me. Though like I am sure I said at the time...if Hayley had put Dani in a secret room...I was going to fall out cuz her whipping out that gun was soooo Kristen Dimera coded and I loved (and got the chance to rewatch) Hayley vs Dani. And the fact it was REAL...woOOOW. It took so long to get to that point, I didn't believe it at all. lol. And just like a Dimera (or Sami Brady) Hayley had that trump card R-E-A-D-Y. And everyone else here called out she was eavesdropping all those times she popped up. And YES to Martin's Secret coming back into play in the best soapy way possible. Clever. My only disappointment now that this is out...no location shoot which would have been the cherry on top.

That said...what else am I feeling...or not?

THINGS I'VE LIKED.

CHELS AS SPOILER. I've been wanting to say it for a while so I'll go first with this. I've liked that Chels was becoming a thorn in the side of Kat/Tomas and started to aim Kat at Izaiah. I liked it because it was giving her something to do for one. For another...it was in character because Chels has never seen it for Tomas. And just like with Ted/Nicole circling each other, it is just a matter of time before Tomas/Kat/Izaiah/Eva come into story play again. They already have Tomas circling Eva/Izaiah again. Now Eva is getting insecure again when Kat has done nothing. Meanwhile Izaiah seems oblivious. It will be interesting to see where it goes.

SHE'S HUMAN AFTER ALL. I will give the writers credit where it's due. I've complained often about how they write SilkPress as a cartoon more than a person. And as soon as I get a person, they revert her to a cartoon. And I don't like that. Since Eva's surgery, a human side to SilkPress has emerged. And what has surprised me has been how the writers have to-date done a good job of keeping that thread in SilkPress without her being a cartoon and STILL being sassy. For me, she's coming across as a schemer. I loved her subtly causing drama with her true archnemesis Nicole and Kial, but I really liked her doing the same with Ted and Shanice with the drama with Shanice's brothers. Again...SUBTLE SCHEMER. I loved Shanice got her lick back by reading her down in front of Marcel. And now she has a Bellclaire circling her? I don't hate it. For so long SilkPress has been a one trick pony. She still has her moments, but she's coming across so much better.

OPERATION IMPALE THAT 'SHIP. Given what I said. I've enjoyed the buildup to Heather messing with Martin and Smitty (and Jacob?) more than all the stuff with Dani and Andre. They have been too off-screen and Heather clearly wants Smitty to pay. So her framing him for Lia's death has potential. And while Naomi and Jacob are doing good being on opposite sides so far, I don't see that lasting.

BLACK KRISTEN DIMERA. I might have seen it coming with her trump card, but I didn't see SilkPress bailing her out. That said...I've enjoyed the reveal right down to Marcel seeing her with the poison. And I have been enjoying the fallout (like the catfight with Chels) and how the story keeps moving between A and B story seamlessly. And Hayley is owning! FINALLY A VILLIAN. And she ain't out of the woods yet, either.

THE UPGRADE. I see we have gotten to the part of filming again where improvements have been made. Because I like Vanessa's remodel of Joey's casino room. And a Dupree dining room.

THEM HAWTHORNES. For a while there, we were seeing them. Naomi vs Tomas gave Jacob something to do when he was not hell-bent on figuring out who the Impaler is. Elon is still slowing making them in-roads with Izaiah. Izaiah continues to love Eva, but does seem to be hanging with Kat more. Darlene is going to Darlene. Luke still gets his mentions. It seems like things are looking mildly up story-wise for the unofficial second family. It just makes me curious how Eva/Izaiah might break up or if Elon is ever going to clue in to Joey/Izaiah father/son bond.

MVJ SEZ...and just cuz...per her recent interview...I see another one of our often-named, never-seen character will be landing in town at long last. Given that Donnell, Deanna, and a Hawthorne has finally landed after a long period of mentions, I can't wait.

THINGS I DON'T LIKE.

JOSH GRIFFITH, YOU THERE? Yeah...in the past month...I have noticed the off-screen happenings have increased. I don't like it at all. Especially things that could have been soapy dramatic fun. Madison's lawsuit. Vanessa's carjacking especially. The Ty reveal with Franciska that had me yelling at my TV phone. Those last two had potential so I can't believe they just left it off-screen. Not to mention the Devon Winters thread that has been going on without him...though I do like well...yeah SilkPress in that storyline was bound to happen.

TED/SHANICE. If they don't give up this ghost....I mean do we really even see them together any more than her brothers showed up?

SPEAKING OF SEEING...I noticed Grayson has upped and vanished. Nicole and Kial has been very, very VERY light. Heck...are Madison and Chels still doing a wedding? Just stuff that I picked up on. I have definitely been feeling the lack of couples.

I KNOW JOEY'S BUSY, BUT...It's time for Deanna to get the goods on him, too.

Well, all I got for now.

47 minutes ago, ranger1rg said:

I also don't know what you mean by calling for a balance over the Shanice/Ted situation. What would that balance look like?

If Shanice and Ted were kissing and touching in a romantic way, I wouldn't comment on them at all -- even if they never had a bedroom scene.

Exactly! What balance? At most, Shanice gets a...hug? There's no hint of couple intimacy at all now. Contrasts that with last year when they had couple vibes and there is no balance.

Same.

49 minutes ago, ranger1rg said:

I read the interview with MVJ about upcoming stories, and she confirmed they're writing for APRIL right now. That makes it clear that the problems we're talking about will not even be addressed.

I am not so sure about that. There were character complaints that they appeared to make corrections on at the start of 'season 2' I just don't know how it fell all the way apart since then.

I absolutely believe there is a bible - I just think there is a reluctance to bring stories to their conclusions and deal with the casting consequences. That said, I assumed Hayley poisoning Bill dragged out for soooo long in order to delay writing Hayley off, but now she's already gotten away with it. I don't like how that happened - or how it makes Bill look stupid in ways that are integral to the story canon, not just the day to day writing. But at least we could have wrapped that part up sooner. The pacing on that front really does have me scratching my head.

I'm also not sure what the plan for the youngest generation was, or what it is now, but it's a mess. It makes no sense that two now three kids of main characters are "away at school," i.e., the same school where frontburner characters who are on-air every week work. And why are they even bothering with any off-screen drama for this set? I can't see Chessie even entertaining the notion of going out with Tyrell, or vice versa after what she did to Samantha, especially when there was no build-up when they were at least sort of in an actual story leading up to the cotillion. And I hope Donnell's absence from the homecoming episode doesn't mean the actor is gone for good, especially before they finally find out Joey killed Doug - Deanna's reaction will be good but the impact for Donnell, who has actually tried to give their horrid mother the benefit of the doubt throughout all this, would be so much more dramatic.

Meanwhile, I can't add much more about Friday's assortment of afterthought storylines, except to say that it's really sad that Nicole's current relationship is one of them, when she deserves so much more. And I don't see that a reunion with this Ted would bring her back to the center of things, assuming that's ultimately where she's headed. I can't speak to anything backstage, but I agree Shanice was more entertaining as the hospital gossip than in this semi-frontburner coupling. And Ted has mostly been a nonentity for more than a year, so couldn't they just have them dating (off-screen) and she could be his plus-one at events, which would give her access to more intel? Speaking of Shanice and Ted, did he say he went through her things and packed for her as part of the surprise? Ewww...

On a completely different note, has it been established before this week that helping cover up for Martin was the extent of Chief Hawthorne's involvement with Joey? I had previously assumed he was up to his eyeballs in all sorts of dirty dealings, based on his sketchy interactions with Marcel in the first weeks of the show, but of course that was before we knew what Martin's secret was or how it related to the other stories. I still find the Hawthornes' copaganda off-putting and typically boring, but at least the internal logic makes more sense. And if Darlene is not complicit, which I also did not think had been established definitively until now, I would be happy to see the show utilize her character more.

Edited October 12Oct 12 by DeliaIrisFan

8 minutes ago, DeliaIrisFan said:

has it been established before this week that helping cover up for Martin was the extent of Chief Hawthorne's involvement with Joey? I had previously assumed he was up to his eyeballs in all sorts of dirty dealings, based on his sketchy interactions with Marcel in the first weeks of the show, but of course that was before we knew what Martin's secret was or how it related to the other stories.

I was wondering about that, too.

Well here’s a thought for the Shanice actress……Don’t audition and accept a role on a soap opera! You might have to kiss someone!

Or even smarter, don't listen to your husband if he is so insecure that he can't handle you kissing an actor for a fictional television show.

10 minutes ago, ReddFoxx said:

Or even smarter, don't listen to your husband if he is so insecure that he can't handle you kissing an actor for a fictional television show.

If she listens to him, she's REALLY not like Shanice.

Well, if there's any truth to the allegations about Ernestine, it's just too dumb for words.

Actors get paid for pretending to be someone they're not. They have to pretend they're villains, they have to pretend they're psychotic, they have to pretend they're dumb, they have to pretend they're insecure, they have to pretend to be in love with people of the opposite gender or the same gender, they have to kiss people, they have to slap people, they have to pretend they're drunk, they have to wear clothes they look ridiculous wearing. It's all part of the job.

I can't imagine an actor "drawing the line" at doing something an actor is EXPECTED to do on a daily basis.

That's as weird as that woman in Kentucky who took a job in the courthouse issuing marriage licenses but refused to issue marriage licenses to people she thought shouldn't be getting married. lol.