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Racism and racial representation on soaps


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4 minutes ago, GLATWT88 said:

 

Yes, I believe that is Miguel. Someone mentions it in the comments. I don't know if Miguel was an important character at the time or about those rumors but I really enjoyed this episode and reading the storylines connected to this period. Obviously the episode needed to be edited down from its runtime from 1991 to fit current episode length, but considering how Miguel was cut from every scene where he was prominently visible even scenes where he was just in passing which made some scenes look choppy, it was clear he was removed due to his outfit. 

 We Hispanics have some Native American ancestry.  So removing Miguel is weird. I would understand it better it it was a white character costumed as a Native American.

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32 minutes ago, victoria foxton said:

 We Hispanics have some Native American ancestry.  So removing Miguel is weird. I would understand it better it it was a white character costumed as a Native American.

 

Well Hispanics encompass an array of race identifies and ethnic groups and many times a combination of races and ethnicities.  For example, most Dominicans present phenotypically as black when designating race group, while Argentinians phentotypically present as white (which was a product of race relations and colonialism in each individual country). Just because one Hispanic may have native ancestors doesn't mean that all Hispanics have indigenous ancestory or lineage. Nonetheless, that particular headdress may not even be associated with the Native tribe to which that particular individual has a connection. Hispanic is not a race identity, but a grouping of individuals with different races, ethnic and cultural traditions based on common language. If the actor who plays Miguel is not indigenous it would nonetheless be insensitive for him to wear such a costume regardless if he may phenotypically resemble someone who may be indigenous.

 

To elaborate, Dominicans and Haitains which share the same island but were colonized by different countries actually have different racial/ethnic makeup. Haitians tend to be more predominately of African descent than Dominicans who tend to be more a mix of European and African descent and this was largely due to how slavery was conducted in each country (which I won't get into now). Nonetheless, Dominicans are considered to be Hispanic, because they are from a Spanish-speaking country but their race identity is black, because phenotypically that's how they would be categorized by American race groups. On the other extreme you have Argentinians and Uruguyans which have a predominately white ethnic identity (again in relation to colonialism and slave relations in those respective countries which I will not get into). Most Argentinians and Uruguayans can trace roots to Italy, Spain and Germany among other "white" nationalities. They are also predominately white countries. However, Argentinians and Uruguayans like Dominicans are also considered Hispanics although neither of the three are likely to have indigenous (very small percentage) ancestory. Mexican, Central Americans and several South American countries do have large indigenous people or people with indigenous ancestory. However, this does not mean that just because someone is Hispanic, they are indigenous or have indigenous lineage. It also doesn't mean that someone that is Hispanic and phenotypically resembles an indigenous person is necessarily indigenous or of indigenous ancestory as many Hispanics are a mix of racial and ethnic identities that may present that way. 

 

So to bring it around, I think Y&R was preventing backlash so decided just to not include those scenes altogether. 

Edited by GLATWT88
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59 minutes ago, GLATWT88 said:

 

Well Hispanics encompass an array of race identifies and ethnic groups and many times a combination of races and ethnicities.  For example, most Dominicans present phenotypically as black when designating race group, while Argentinians phentotypically present as white (which was a product of race relations and colonialism in each individual country). Just because one Hispanic may have native ancestors doesn't mean that all Hispanics have indigenous ancestory or lineage. Nonetheless, that particular headdress may not even be associated with the Native tribe to which that particular individual has a connection. Hispanic is not a race identity, but a grouping of individuals with different races, ethnic and cultural traditions based on common language. If the actor who plays Miguel is not indigenous it would nonetheless be insensitive for him to wear such a costume regardless if he may phenotypically resemble someone who may be indigenous.

It funny this is a racist society. That at the same time is politically correct.  With all due respect you didn't have to educate me on my own culture/admixture. This not a genetics board.  Any way my Alpine Med +  Pontid + Castizo with residual Silvid self would get in trouble wearing the headdress.

Edited by victoria foxton
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13 minutes ago, victoria foxton said:

It funny this is a racist society. That at the same time is politically correct.  With all due respect you didn't have to educate me on my own culture/admixture. This not a genetics board.  Any way my Alpine Med/Pontid Castizo with minor silvid self  would get in trouble wearing the headdress.

I'm not sure what your ethnic identity has to do with Y&R not including the Native American headdress. I also wasn't educating you on your culture as I don't know you personally, I was explaining how Hispanics encompass an array of ethnic, racial and cultural identities because you used the term as if it denotes one singular identity and therefore it was okay for any Hispanic to rock indigenous headdress.

 

Race is a flimsy social construct when you start to break it down, but it is also very much apart of America. As you mentioned, keeping it PC definitely played a role in not including the images.  

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2 minutes ago, GLATWT88 said:

I'm not sure what your ethnic identity has to do with Y&R not including the Native American headdress. I also wasn't educating you on your culture as I don't know you personally, I was explaining how Hispanics encompass an array of ethnic, racial and cultural identities because you used the term as if it denotes one singular identity and therefore it was okay for any Hispanic to rock indigenous headdress.

 

Race is a flimsy social construct when you start to break it down, but it is also very much apart of America. As you mentioned, keeping it PC definitely played a role in not including the images.  

 

image.gif

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9 hours ago, Faulkner said:

All true. I think, even beyond race, Mulcahey speaks to ideas of what networks feel like daytime’s “conservative” viewers will accept, which has stifled the growth of the medium. They’ve dumbed down soaps with the stereotype of some white, older, poorly educated, bible-thumping viewer in mind. And some point, a lot of holdout viewers who didn’t fit that mold just said, y’all can have this sh!t because it’s not doing it for me anymore.

 

I know we all love soaps, but even at their best, they failed us consistently in terms of showcasing America in all of its exciting variety. The soaps stayed stuck or even regressed to cater to a dwindling, dying audience; hundreds of other options are available to people who want more; and perhaps it was all inevitable given how the world has changed so dramatically. But it’s just sad that we never saw the Harding Lemays of daytime portray the world as we know it to be, with the same depth of character they were known for.

Y&R did do a stunningly accurate depiction of rural farm people with Hope, Betty, and Cliff. I was utterly shocked how good it was written, and wondered where the hell these California writers and producers got that insight. 

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8 hours ago, DramatistDreamer said:

 

Or someone else, because the burden shouldn't only be on her but yes, that I would like to see!  Ellen Holly, Tonya Pinkins, Tonya Lee Williams, Eddie Earl Hatch, Stephanie E. Williams and so many others would have loads of insight I'd bet! 


Honestly, one of these soap publications is who *should* be doing it. Either here, TV Source or Daytime Confidential. It doesn’t all have to be on the record, but all it takes is one person to interview these people, write an article and get this out to the masses. It’s a shame my mind first went to Victoria Rowell, but it’s easy to do that when she’s the only one who has been doing the work. But I do agree the burden shouldn’t be all on her. She’s done so much already. 
 

8 hours ago, ReddFoxx said:

Rebecca on Passions was flat out racist. There was a scene where Pilar had collapsed in a bathroom and Rebecca tapped her with her foot and said hola. I know that the show went for comedy a lot, but this wasn't funny.

 

 

I loved Rebecca and I do think they always wrote her as being racist and in the wrong. As crazy as Passions could be, I appreciated that they gave you various views on situations. The fact that Rebecca is one of the only racist characters in soaps isn’t realistic. 

8 hours ago, DramatistDreamer said:

 

8 hours ago, ReddFoxx said:
Edited by Chris B
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Regarding the scenes in the rebroadcast of the Y&R Masquerade Ball -- the deleted scenes of the *character*  Miguel wearing a "costume" for the Masquerade Ball - as Native American.

 

Instead of speculating about the actor's ethnicity, here is info from the actor himself:

 

Anthony Peña (Miguel Rodriguez on Y&R)-

Real name Antonio Peña.

Stage name Anthony Pena or Anthony Peña.

IMDB bio: 
https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0671535/bio

 

He mentions his ethnicity in a facebook post dated September 5, 2012: 
https://www.facebook.com/antonio.pena.54379/posts/341033609321115

 

 

Edited by janea4old
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10 hours ago, soapfan770 said:

I remember I think it was Toups’ great assessment after JER’s passing that I will always remember that by that point it was a complicated Reilly just trying to communicate his thoughts out to the world. 

 

Curious to know what kind of thoughts were being alluded to here. What exactly was JER hoping to communicate?

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1 hour ago, janea4old said:

Regarding the scenes in the rebroadcast of the Y&R Masquerade Ball -- the deleted scenes of the *character*  Miguel wearing a "costume" for the Masquerade Ball - as Native American.

 

Instead of speculating about the actor's ethnicity, here is info from the actor himself:

 

Anthony Peña (Miguel Rodriguez on Y&R)-

Real name Antonio Peña.

Stage name Anthony Pena or Anthony Peña.

IMDB bio: 
https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0671535/bio

 

He mentions his ethnicity in a facebook post dated September 5, 2012: 
https://www.facebook.com/antonio.pena.54379/posts/341033609321115

 

 

Wow didn't know Anthony was from Texas. I wonder if he moved back after his YR days were over?

 

So we had two South Texans on YR...Anthony and Eva. I know she still comes and visits.

Oops forgot David Cowgill who played Cliff Wilson on YR was also from south texas.

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2 hours ago, janea4old said:

Regarding the scenes in the rebroadcast of the Y&R Masquerade Ball -- the deleted scenes of the *character*  Miguel wearing a "costume" for the Masquerade Ball - as Native American.

 

Instead of speculating about the actor's ethnicity, here is info from the actor himself:

 

Anthony Peña (Miguel Rodriguez on Y&R)-

Real name Antonio Peña.

Stage name Anthony Pena or Anthony Peña.

IMDB bio: 
https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0671535/bio

 

He mentions his ethnicity in a facebook post dated September 5, 2012: 
https://www.facebook.com/antonio.pena.54379/posts/341033609321115

 

 

Thank you for sharing. To clarify, I wasn't speculating on his ethnicity, I was discussing the term Hispanic and how it is often used as a pass for people who come from Spanish speaking countries to assert some otherness when it is used in the context of race and usually wrongly applied as a race identifier. Just because someone is Hispanic doesn't mean they all fit in the same race category.

 

As I originally mentioned, I believe those scenes were deleted to avoid any confusion or controversy just because of how those scenes were edited. My intent was not to get into a deep conversation about race and race identities among Hispanics, but that's where the conversation evolved. 

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