And Max, nobody is on here saying that AMC and OLTL deserve to continue on over other soaps. Why do you keep trying to talk about it?

Eric, the fact of the matter is that you're not one who is suggesting that AMC and OLTL deserve "special" treatment that other soaps never got. However, I have been getting that vibe from others all along. (I not going to mention any names, because that will only make this thread more divisive.) As you stated, it's probably best I drop this specific issue and focus on other things (regarding the online venture).

Yep I remember reading from many soaps fans that "the ABC soaps are safe cause ABC owns them"

Speaking as a "bad soap fan" I don't think the cancellation of AMC/OLTL is a bigger tragedy. I think that the ABC viewers simply thought their shows were safer. Once the reality came down, everybody lost their [!@#$%^&*]. Also I think it was a matter of a tipping point. It was one thing to go from nine soaps to eight. Totally different to go from six soaps to four.

I honestly never understood why ABC soap fans felt that their soaps were immune from cancellation just because they were network owned. (Network owned soaps were cancelled in the past, even on ABC.) I think that as you two suggested, fans just wanted to give themselves a false sense of security.

While I may be the only one here to believe this, I don't believe that going from six soaps to four is a bad thing for the genre. By contrast, keeping soaps around that are on their last legs is what is really hurting the genre (and that's why GH and DOOL need to be cancelled ASAP as well). There's no reason why the number of soaps on the air has to be four (or fewer); instead of spending time trying to extend the life of dying shows, folks should spend that energy convincing executives to launch new ones. (I've already explained in a new thread why now would be an ideal time to launch a new daytime soap.)

Edited November 22, 201114 yr by Max

If soaps were going because they're on their last legs, nothing would be left.

If soaps were going because they're on their last legs, nothing would be left.

No kidding and I'm willing to be every soap will be dead before a revival of the genre occurs, if it ever does.

No one is suggesting anyone get special treatment. I think the vibe was different simply because P&G had slowly been disrespecting their soap line-up and wiping it out piece by piece for years, starting with AW. I remember that mess. The movement to save that show was loud, organized, apparently intelligent, and ultimately futile, because NBC and Susan Lee did not give a [!@#$%^&*]; they thought Reilly was the future. Then, first GL then ATWT were considered 'inevitable' by the time they got the axe, simply because of the drastic downturn in both quality and production values over the course of several interminable years. With ABC, I think the superficial veneers of quality of their soaps was either maintained or degraded so gradually by comparison to the P&G soaps, and their ouster so sudden and frankly short-sighted, that it came as a galvanizing shock to some people.

I don't see anything to apologize for. The two ABC soaps may or may not be revived; PP has them licensed for the next ten years. P&G has not handed its soaps over. I personally would love to see AW, ATWT and GL all revived in some form at some point; they were all once proud television institutions, and I think GL in particular is a fertile property that can be reinvented. But that's not happening right now. For OLTL and AMC, it might. I'm happy about that. I see no reason why my love for those shows and hopes for their future are in any way incongruous with how I grieved for other cancelled soaps. Yes, I'm sure to diehard fans of other lost soaps this potential revival of one show and not another seems unfair. And it is unfair. But that's life. We all live with it.

Edited November 22, 201114 yr by Vee

I've gotten that vibe as well from other places, a "neener neener" type of thing from SOME AMC & OLTL fans cause of PP picking up the two shows while there was no interest in GL & ATWT living on.

Edited November 22, 201114 yr by dragonflies

Would have AMC and OLTL been cancelled if ATWT and GL were still on??

As much as I love ATWT ...I dont know if I would want it back on the air with the same hacks in charge. It wasn't much fun to watch. ATWT died with Douglas Marland. I'll be happy with continued ATWT DVD releases I can purchase.

I've gotten that vibe as well from other places, a "neener neener" type of thing from SOME AMC & OLTL fans cause of PP picking up the two shows while there was no interest in GL & ATWT living on.

I've seen the opposite - some type of pleasure that this fell through when the P&G soaps never had a chance. As someone who will always have more of an emotional connection to P&G soaps than to just about anything else on TV, it makes me sad, because the soap genre is something that should be mourned instead of being about one-upmanship.

Would have AMC and OLTL been cancelled if ATWT and GL were still on??

As much as I love ATWT ...I dont know if I would want it back on the air with the same hacks in charge. It wasn't much fun to watch. ATWT died with Douglas Marland. I'll be happy with continued ATWT DVD releases I can purchase.

I think the last year showed the potential, if they focused on Lucinda, Bob, Kim, etc. and some characters like Luke (although I know Luke became very divisive). But I agree never with Goutman or Passanante...I would say bring back Richard Culliton.

I've never seen anyone mocking the P&G soaps being denied a resurrection vis a vis AMC and OLTL, and I would decry it if I had. I have seen what Carl has, but I generally think it has less to do with the CBS soaps so much as just a bunch of bitter ex-ABC fangirls who feel vindicated after the loss of Couple X or Character Y from either show. "If I can't have this, I want them gone." Please.

As much as I love ATWT ...I dont know if I would want it back on the air with the same hacks in charge. It wasn't much fun to watch. ATWT died with Douglas Marland. I'll be happy with continued ATWT DVD releases I can purchase.

Though there was some short-term heartbreak, I'm now glad ATWT was put out to pasture because its best days were well in the past. (This was also true for every other long-running soap that was cancelled before it.) I honestly believe that what's in the best interest for the Nixon soaps is for their fans to rally for classic reruns to air on television or be released on DVD (as opposed to pushing for new episodes produced with a shoe-string budget).

No one is suggesting anyone get special treatment. I think the vibe was different simply because P&G had slowly been disrespecting their soap line-up and wiping it out piece by piece for years, starting with AW. I remember that mess. The movement to save that show was loud, organized, apparently intelligent, and ultimately futile, because NBC and Susan Lee did not give a [!@#$%^&*]; they thought Reilly was the future. Then, first GL then ATWT were considered 'inevitable' by the time they got the axe, simply because of the drastic downturn in both quality and production values over the course of several interminable years. With ABC, I think the superficial veneers of quality of their soaps was either maintained or degraded so gradually by comparison to the P&G soaps, and their ouster so sudden and frankly short-sighted, that it came as a galvanizing shock to some people.

I don't see anything to apologize for. The two ABC soaps may or may not be revived; PP has them licensed for the next ten years. P&G has not handed its soaps over. I personally would love to see AW, ATWT and GL all revived in some form at some point; they were all once proud television institutions, and I think GL in particular is a fertile property that can be reinvented. But that's not happening right now. For OLTL and AMC, it might. I'm happy about that. I see no reason why my love for those shows and hopes for their future are in any way incongruous with how I grieved for other cancelled soaps. Yes, I'm sure to diehard fans of other lost soaps this potential revival of one show and not another seems unfair. And it is unfair. But that's life. We all live with it.

Vee, even though I disagree with much of what you have written, I must say that this is an extremely eloquent and thoughtful post.

Edited November 22, 201114 yr by Max

Then, first GL then ATWT were considered 'inevitable' by the time they got the axe, simply because of the drastic downturn in both quality and production values over the course of several interminable years.

I agree with this, especially in the case of GL. Now I feel that way about GH, which I have watched since my teens. I'm not sure there is anything left of GH to save. IMO, both AMC and OLTL have more life than GH, but then, I wasn't watching OLTL and AMC in their prime, so that may make a difference in how I see them.

Slightly off-topic but not related... Netflix will be resurrecting the TV show Arrested Development with online episodes in 2013. (That sound you heard was me squeeing!) http://news.mornings...F10170_univ.xml I think this is interesting for a couple of reasons:

1.) I'd put the AD fanbase up against soap fans for sheer devotion any day of the week

2.) Netflix isn't giving specifics like frequency or episode length so that's still all up in the air

Nothing officially but before the deal was announced, series creator Mitch Hurwitz indicated that they were in talks with Netflix, Hulu, and Showtime to produce 9 or 10 new episodes.

3.) wouldn't they have the same union considerations as PP?

No, AD is a SAG production and SAG has a comprehensive new media agreement with specific rules and clear residual provisions for online projects that earn money.

The soaps are covered by AFTRA, which only has contracts with some new media providers but not others. It's a piecemeal approach that makes things more complicated.

Pardon me and my poor Nola Reardon imitation, but...[former NBC Daytime VP] Susan Lee...oh, I hate that name.

No, AD is a SAG production and SAG has a comprehensive new media agreement with specific rules and clear residual provisions for online projects that earn money.

The soaps are covered by AFTRA, which only has contracts with some new media providers but not others. It's a piecemeal approach that makes things more complicated.

Ahhh thank you. The union stuff completely confuses me.

Ilene Kristen, Tonja Walker, Cat Hickland, and others are on Silas' blog thing. Apparently IK makes it seem like PP OLTL is essentially dead but I haven't listened yet.

http://www.blogtalkradio.com/silas-kain/2011/11/22/silas-kains-soap-celebration-birthday-bash

Ilene Kristen, Tonja Walker, Cat Hickland, and others are on Silas' blog thing. Apparently IK makes it seem like PP OLTL is essentially dead but I haven't listened yet.

http://www.blogtalkr...n-birthday-bash

But was she even signed on to Prospect Park? This Silas guy has sources but he seems very reactionary