Members DeeeDee Posted December 7, 2015 Members Share Posted December 7, 2015 (edited) Victor's last in character year was 2003. He was tolerable in 2005 only because of Cassie's death. Most of the reason Y&R seems solid for some until 2006/2007 is because up until that point Y&R was still using many of their classic sets & music cues but the writing had been horrible for a long time. Edited December 7, 2015 by DeeeDee 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Y&R21395 Posted December 7, 2015 Members Share Posted December 7, 2015 haha I love these episodes, the whole build-up to the yacht scenes were spectacular. I must admit, I do get a kick out of the scenes between 'Jennifer' and Lauren, even if I do get a chuckle of how the hell Lauren of all people couldn't recognise her through that disguise I have to admit though, the Mac/J.T/Kevin scenes and the rest of the young generation bore the absolute living hell out of me. I get the feeling i'd be more lenient towards Mac if Ashley Noel Bashioum was still portraying her. She's the only rendition of the character that grew on me. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members YRfan23 Posted December 7, 2015 Members Share Posted December 7, 2015 I liked that they at least tried to make Victor suffer a little that year too....even if for whatever reason the initial consequences that Victor should have face faded away the end of that year....(Braeden having a fit?) I would have to see more of 05 before Cassie's death, but i guess it helps that Victor didn't really eat the show as much as he does now either...at least it seems that way...I sometimes wonder if CBS/SONY feels like they have to be that invested on Braeden that they allowed the countless other regimes to turn Victor into the monster he has become..(with Braeden's increasingly laziness coming to play more and more) I personally feel like the show could go on without him which is funny considering if things didn't work out 6 years ago, we wouldn't even be in this position about how horrible Victor is (though he still was back then) I always said if I can praise Maria for one thing is occasionally reusing the old scores, but that's all I will say... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members soapfan770 Posted December 7, 2015 Members Share Posted December 7, 2015 (edited) I thought the first half of 2004 was pretty solid, but I will admit between August 2004 and May 2005 remains a blur to me and I don't remember too much of anything going on aside from Malcolm's return, Jack and Phyllis' car crash in a winter storm, and that really, really bizarre story about David Hedison and Kin Schriner's characters that was abruptly dropped for no reason. And somewhere in there JT dated a singer played by Julie Pinson but it was a blink and you'll miss it type story. Mac and JT were indeed coma inducing named Worst couple/Most boring couple by SOD back in 2005. I was surprised they even tried pairing them again in 2010 to no avail and ended up shipping them off. I didn't mind Mac hanging around Kevin though. JT was so annoying back then too always being a bit too self-righteous at times Kinsey was bad as Mac and later played on Days in a strange role of Rafe's dead girlfriend's twisted sister or something to that effect. Devon wasn't always properly used as he should have been and was almost intolerable as a character 2007-2009. Edited December 7, 2015 by soapfan770 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DeeeDee Posted December 7, 2015 Members Share Posted December 7, 2015 (edited) The first half of 2004 is terrible. Lily's RAPE being treated as consensual sex? MICHAEL telling Neil & Drucilla NOT to have an issue with his INSANE serial rapist brother STALKING their teenage daughter? Serial rapist Kevin almost getting his rape victim Lily almost raped AGAIN to stroke his own ego? Kevin SETTING HIMSELF ON FIRE? The Newman family acting like Nick was wrong for turning Victor in? Victor getting off almost scott free for breaking a million laws? Cricket & Danny going under the bus for Giggly Heffa? The annoying & unnecessary Daniel recast? Diane being written into a corner everywhere? The stupid orchid story? Brittany moping after being electrocuted by a stripper pole? Sharon & the disappearing corpse? Giggly Heffa throwing The Abbotts under the bus for VICTOR? Colleen deciding JT needed to be a pop star for 15 minutes? Lauren becoming a pod person to prop Kevin? Insane Ashley? Olivia dating ANOTHER of her sister's ex's? Katherine randomly falling off the wagon? Nick & Sharon PARACHUTING INTO A CORNFIELD? Brittany comparing her scars to Cousin Geri's cerebral palsy? Drucilla using the hair relaxer on her hair & it turning into an alopecia story? Brad standing around while Nikki & Ashley fight about who gets to tell Victor about Abby? The ONLY good things to come out of 2004, especially early 2004, were David Hedison's Arthur Hendricks, Joan Van Ark's Gloria & the return of Ashley Bashioum's Mackenzie. Edited December 7, 2015 by DeeeDee 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members YRfan23 Posted December 7, 2015 Members Share Posted December 7, 2015 (edited) That does sound really stupid on paper, even if I would have to see most of it myself... I still wonder if the reason the Victor story turned out they way it did was because of Braeden's bitching as he admitted that he wasn't gonna let Jack Smith take Victor down......though I guess they way they wrote it was more unbelievable compared to some sort of a Victor "redemption" arc, which I guess they were gonna have to do anyway... I actually am shocked there isn't that much of Joan Van Ark's Gloria on youtube.. Edited December 7, 2015 by YRfan23 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DeeeDee Posted December 7, 2015 Members Share Posted December 7, 2015 Braeden bitching to the press DID affect Victor's punishment story but it was because of Victor's interactions with Nick & Victoria the previous year. He HATED Victoria slapping him & Nick punching him and SWORE his own children would never strike him. There used to be a lot of JVA's Gloria on youtube but they were taken down a couple of years ago. In a few short months JVA created a complex character that was a fun addition to the Baldwin & Abbott families. Once the writers changed the character into a Judith Chapman Character after Judith Chapman arrived it was all downhill. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members YRfan23 Posted December 7, 2015 Members Share Posted December 7, 2015 (edited) I may be off base, but it's kind of sad how the writer's have to change gears just because a certain actor who's use to getting his way, bashes the show to the press....and this is a terrible example to use but I can't believe no one at the helm had more of a Claire Labine or Wendy Riche approach with Braeden as when Tony Geary complained one or the other just said he could LEAVE if they don't like it.....you would think someone at Y&R would just tell him the same (though I guess he's just that hard to stick up to in real life then he is as Victor) Was he at least ok with getting punched by Jerry Douglas?.....I could probably handle Victor better if other characters were at lease allowed to slap or punch him more today Ill admit....but that will probably never happen again, which is sad cause realistically that's what would happen....Bill Bell even allowed Cole to punch Victor circa 1994... I suppose if Katherine were still alive she would be the only one allowed to slap Victor, though towards the end she overlooked every single thing Victor did especially to Billy etc... so today probably wouldn't be too much different with the Marco/Paragon mess... Edited December 7, 2015 by YRfan23 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DeeeDee Posted December 7, 2015 Members Share Posted December 7, 2015 Braeden's main problem was he felt the Newman dynamic changing & aired his grievances with the writing in the press. This was also around the time that MTS returned from her contract issues & was pushing for stories away from Victor which is why Braeden threw a tantrum when John Enos (who had tons of chemistry with MTS) grew popular. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members YRfan23 Posted December 7, 2015 Members Share Posted December 7, 2015 ugh.....It really does seem like Braeden is the HW of his own stories.....:( I don't get The MTS thing as both her and Braeden proved to be popular with different pairings....so why would he get all upset about that? unless he really felt he was in danger of being thrown in the backburner.... The family dynamic thing is also ridiculous as it's basically saying that they will never truly break free of Victor, as again realistically after everything Victor has done they should be DONE with him... no wonder he has "great things" to say about the show now....I think this is truly Braeden's vision of Victor and the writers are just caving in.... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DeeeDee Posted December 7, 2015 Members Share Posted December 7, 2015 Braeden having a problem with characters hitting Victor had the biggest effect on Brad. Victor had made Aunt Jack his bitch many times over by then but Victor getting the best of a much younger Brad was too much. The Nikki/Bobby pairing was different because it arrived at a time when all of Victor's other ex-wives had been so badly damaged by bad writing that he didn't have a viable love interest on the canvas besides MTS. Nikki/Bobby also didn't provide easy opportunities for Victor to insert himself back into Nikki's life as he'd always done with all of Nikki's pairings. It's not a coincidence that a couple of years later Victor was in one relationship after another with younger women. In three years time he went from Sabrina to Ashley (AGAIN) to Meggie to Nikki (BRIEFLY) to Maura West's Diane to Sharon to Genevieve to Sharon (AGAIN) before FINALLY settling down with Nikki. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members YRfan23 Posted December 7, 2015 Members Share Posted December 7, 2015 I thought he only punched Brad once during the LML era? I know Brad tried to attack him a couple times over the years with little success..watching him punch Neil in prison probably pissed off the most though and you would think Neil would have been able to strike back.... I sometimes wonder if Victor's best years were before Bergman was cast, though the writing was still good then, there's no denying the Victor/Jack dynamic was more rounded when Lester was still around... haha I forgot about Victor/Genevieve, I still throw up in my mouth when I think about that one scene of Maura West stripping down in front of Victor a few years ago.... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members soapfan770 Posted December 7, 2015 Members Share Posted December 7, 2015 For me I have to take retrospective approach because even though it sounds bad looking back, at the time I actually had enjoyed some of that. Like for an example at the time I was a Phyllis fan and gleefully smirked over the Daniel/Danny neglect revelation as I was less than enthused with the Danny/Christine reunion at the time. I smirked when Grace Turner turned out to be Cameron's lover and co-conspirator. I felt Katherine falling off the wagon was due to reaching a mental breaking point from the stress of trying forge something with Jill and it was actually a nice throwback to have Katherine have flashbacks of her and Phillip and then dream of Rex and Phillip III. John dumping Gina for Van Ark's trashy Gloria was hilarious. However some of the other stuff which you mentioned Dee was indeed completely forgettable(Olivia even got engaged to Wes!) and even I had a forgot about some of that stuff. I could have bought a real Kevin redemption story, but they botched it really bad. Heck I forget about that orchid story, it feels like Damon Porter was never a character on the show now. I liked Damon, but then his own story went down with the stupid stuff about having to rescue his ex-wife or something? Ask me about the Cameron story and I think the only thing I can say about that story would "oh yeah that's when Nikki and Sharon were in the sewers". But yes 2004 did certainly unravel into a trainwreck and somehow Lynne, John Silva, and Mamie all exited stage left. Well I think Lynne moved in her with her mother in Chicago but it was all without any fanfare. Didn't Braeden almost at one point leave for a bit in the fall of 2004? I remember right after taking his complaints to the soap press Victor was gone for a month to seek out Victoria to convince her to return. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members soapfan770 Posted December 7, 2015 Members Share Posted December 7, 2015 (edited) Not along while watching stuff on Y&R from 1987 I came across where Victor forgave Ashley for having the abortion and it was really sweet and moving. Probably something Braeden would never do today as the Victor has transformed from anti-hero to super-villain. Even Vito Corleone was more humble that Victor is. I don't think it wasn't until about 2000 or so when I first started hating on Victor between his relationship with Ramona(Victor's got show off his mojo!) and attempting to start a relationship with Ashley while using her at the same time(right before Spermgate). That's when I fell out with Victor. The sad thing about Victor and Diane was in spite of their less than humble beginnings they really fell in love with each other despite the cost. We had to see Victor painfully explain to a hurt Hope he had married Diane just as she was about to tell Victor Jr. of his true paternity. We saw a humbled Jack toast the couple and then support Victor and advise him of his options of having children with Diane inspite of the vasectomy. The only good thing about Victor and Genevieve was Jill eavesdropping in a geisha disguise and ended up ruining their business plan. Really only Jill can attack Victor and win these days, but with Jill only making rare appearances we probably won't get to see the two titans clash again. Edited December 7, 2015 by soapfan770 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DeeeDee Posted December 7, 2015 Members Share Posted December 7, 2015 (edited) Hating Danny & Cricket doesn't make up for the fact they were thrown under the bus for St. Giggly & an unnecessary Daniel recast. It's that same Giggly propping that made SHARON (whose child had just died) into the villain in Nick's affair. Danny being a neglectful parent was WAY out of character for him but anything to make Giggly look better. Grace being Cameron's co-conspirator made no sense & was only tacked on when the writers decided to keep Linden Ashby. The writing was so bad it ruined the character to the point where she couldn't explain her clearly explain her actions to Cassie when the girl she considered a daughter for over a year asked direct her questions. Katherine relapsing made no sense. Kay fought Jill over MUCH worse for MANY years (including abandoning her own home than be driven to drink) yet suddenly Jill fires Esther and does a little remodeling (both which Katherine approved of) & Katherine gets the urge to get drunk in front of all of her loved ones WHO DO NOTHING leaving her TO THROW HER OWN INTERVENTION until the ghosts of one of her ex husbands (who only knew her sober) & Jill's NOT DEAD son visit her to tell her not to drink? John & JVA's Gloria were a lot of fun together (because neither the show nor the character made excuses for Gloria). Victor left town just before Thanksgiving of 2004 (he & Nikki didn't go see Victoria until the spring of 2005). During the fall/winter of 2004 he mainly spent watching Nick fail as CEO of Newman & interfering with Nikki's relationship with Bobby (Brittany & Bobby left the ranch almost as soon as Braeden returned) Edited December 7, 2015 by DeeeDee 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.